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Stone Edge vs Earthquake ?

Which of this moves do you prefer on your Rhydon and why?

I have one with SE and having mixed feelings about this. Wonder if I should try to evolve another one with EQ...

Theoretically SE has slightly higher DPS but Earthquake deals more damage per hit plus combined with Mud Slap it gives you the set of two moves of the same type. Stone Edge was supposed to have ultra high chance of "critical hit" but it has not been implemented so far so... I can't decide on either one.

Asked by DarwinHMS8 years 3 months ago
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Answers

MS/SE is better for defence as it provides more coverage, while MS/EQ is better on offence like you said because they're the same type so against good matchups both will be super effective.

MS/EQ should be better on offence too because there's more types you're advantageous against. The types that rock is SE against that ground is not (ice, flying and bug), you wouldn't use a Rhydon for anyway.

Also it really grinds my gears when someone thinks a charge move is good because it deals high DPS. Your overall DPS is what matters, because you cannot only use your charge move. Because of this, charge moves that deal high DPS for longer are better than charge moves that deal the same (or slightly more) DPS over a shorter period of time, because longer moves make up a larger percentage of an overall damage cycle (your damage from quick moves and charge moves combined) and therefore mean they increase the average DPS more.

If you had a charge move that did 1 damage in 0.001s it would have 1000 DPS but it'd still be a shit charge move because it would have almost no impact on your overall DPS.

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You'd be better off with Golem since Golem can have double rock moves.

A Rhydon with SE rather than EQ would be better against Zapdos but that's one fringe case that isn't in the game, and you'd be worse against other Pokemon as a result, which isn't worth being stronger against Zapdos if you don't even fill the niche as a Zapdos counter since neither quick move is SE against it. Mud Slap is neutral and Rock Smash gets resisted.

It's like saying Fury Cutter + Megahorn on Nidoking is better against Exeggutor than it's over movesets. But you wouldn't use a Nidoking against an Exeggutor in the first place.

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by TopDog 8 years 3 months ago

EQ and rock have advantages and disadvantages over each other. Therefore depending on the use one will be better than the other. DPS isnt the only factor. EQ is SE on rock for example...
Imo EQ has better typing overall at least for now with Gen 1. But SEdge is better against Lapras, Dragonite and Snoralax.

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For what reason do you think Stone Edge is better against Snorlax? Snorlax doesn't resist or take super effective damage from either Rock or Ground.

Are you perhaps confusing Snorlax doing less damage against Rock, which it will do to Rhydon no matter which move it has...?

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Its a faster move against a punishing mon. Only a slight advantage but I prefer SE against Snoralax especially if it has BS.
I guess it should say just lapras and dragonite only and Snoralax is neutral for both. Thanks for the heads up.

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by pipjay 8 years 3 months ago

Having two moves of the same type is good for pokemon you use for training and attacking, but having mixed type moves provides more coverage for gym defenders.

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I have two 90+ Rhydons, one with MS and SE the other with MS and EQ. Honestly, both of them kick Snorlax butt with the same efficiency. Typing weakness and preference will dictate how you use it, but in my actual combat experience I'm really not seeing much of difference.

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Agreed - I've got one of each and in real life I find the difference extremely marginal. Having said that I'm powering up Stone Edge first...

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I would too, if only because I'll occasionally find a Lapras or Dragonite next up in the gym and having a fully or near fully charged SE is a great way to start off a battle.

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IN THE LINES BELOW, I WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE OFFENSIVE RHYDON ONLY!

In a simple calculus, you will see that earthquake is slightly better. Otherwise, as the cooldown of earthquake takes 4.2secs while Stone Edge takes 3.1secs, using SE allows you to recover energy faster, so you can use the charge move more times (it won't make that difference considering that a full battle normally won't take more than two cycles, maybe in the next generation agains Blissey).

--------calculus if you want to know--------
-Mud Slap
DPS w/ Stab = 13.89
Cooldown = 1.35sec

-Stone Edge
DPS w/ Stab = 32.26
Cooldown = 3.1sec

-Earthquake
DPS w/ Stab = 29.76
Cooldown = 4.2sec

Considering that EQ cooldown is the longest with 4.2 sec, we need to use at least 4.2 seconds to calculate it. I will use 5 seconds.

time = rhydon w/ EQ --- Rhydon w/ SE
1sec = 29.76 --- 32.26
2sec = 29.76 --- 32.26
3sec = 29.76 --- 32.26
4sec = 29.76 --- (32.36x0.1sec)+(13.89x0.9sec) = 15.737
5sec = (29.76x0.2sec)+(13.89x0.8sec) = 17.064 --- 13.89

TOTAL IN 5 SECS
Rhydon w/ EQ deals 136.1056
Rhydon w/ SE deals 126.397

So, if you take short battles that you only use the charge move 2 or 3 times, that are most of the battles, Earthquake will be better. If you want to use Rhydon against pokemons that are weak against Stone, go with SE. But in the first generation at least, there are two pokemon at gyms that are weak against rock: Lapras and Dragonite. You should not use Rhydon against Lapras because Ice has advantage against the ground type. So Rhydon w/ SE would mostly be a Dragonite counter. If you want to battle Dragonite, use the SE one. If you want to battle any other pokemon, go for EQ.

I, particularly, prefer EQ.

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I agree with your assessment. One thing to note is the small chance that 3 stone edges(240 energy) are possible in cases where EQ(200 energy) will only be used 2x. This is more likely to happen against larger mons especially Snoralax which is a where Rhydon is frequently used.

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I just did the calculus for this too, the results:

At the first use of the charge move, EQ and SE starts at the same second.

At the second use, SE starts 1 second faster

At the third use, SE starts 3 seconds faster

At the fourth use, SE starts 5 seconds faster. But, unless you got a horrible CP Rhydon fighting against a strong Snorlax, you won't need the fourth use (and your Rhydon probably will be defeated, so lets analyse utill the third use.

Untill the third use, there is only a total sum of 4 seconds in the whole fight when a Rhydon with SE will damage more than the Rhydon with EQ. You should be ending the 3rd use of the charge move at the 39th second if with SE and at the 41th second if with EQ.

That means that, in the total sum of 41 seconds when the fight will probably be ended, only 4 of them the SE Rhydon would've done better. OK, I know that, in a fair fight (no huge CP differences), you won't defeat a Snorlax in less than 25 seconds. 41-25=16, so we left with 16 seconds where the battle should end on. Considering this, the SE Rhydon has 1/4 (4 on 16 seconds) of chance of finishing the battle before the EQ Rhydon.

Conclusion: against huge HP and defense pokemon (with no typing advantages), the Rhydon with EQ is also better.

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Do all the math you all want. EQ seems more useful, not worth the trouble of rerolling for a new moveset though.

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Haha chill. Just my opinion, just like yours. I've got both too. Just thought it was funny that so much math goes into such a simple battle system and it still comes down to preference after reading all the posts.

Why's everyone so rude on this site? He literally asked "which do you prefer?"

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In the current gen I actually prefer SE...by a pretty large margin. And I have and have used both.

People talk about having same types on both charge and quick moves...A) who cares if they're both STAB? and B) if you have a choice of the charge move's type you should choose the more effective one...not just the one that's the same as the quick move.

Talking about type coverage, ground attacks are great vs. almost nobody useful....except fire which stone is also effective against. The other 4 - Poison, Rock, Steel, and Electric,are pretty un-inspiring. Not only are they very uncommon gym defenders, but Poison and Rock are both easily dealt with using Water. There's only one steel Pokemon. That leaves Electric. If having a super effective quick move and resisting their dmg isn't enough to beat them, then I don't know what to tell you....

Stone Edge on the other hand does extra dmg to Lapras AND Dragonite AND Gyarados, all of which, as I'm sure you know, are common gym defenders. It also will be just as effective vs. Snorlax

Just my 2 cents

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Just as you would use a Water attacker instead against Poison and Rock, you wouldn't use a Rhydon against a Lapras/Dragonite/Gyarados. Even moreso.

It's very possible someone has all of their Vaps in gyms, thereby not having a good Water attacker available.

It's unlikely someone doesn't have at least a Flareon available to do better against Lapras, at least a Cloyster (if not a Lapras) available to handle Dragonite, and at least a Jolteon available to handle Gyarados. These are common and not stuff you'd put in gyms.

If SE did more damage than EQ I'd agree with you nonetheless, but it doesn't. So even all else aside, if you don't have a type advantage (e.g. vs Snorlax, probably the most common matchup) EQ will dish out more overall damage (and in the scenario where you need it as much as possible). Only question there is if you'll get caught by a BS/EQ/HB while using EQ that you could have dodged if you used SE. BS doesn't hurt a Rhydon much, most Snorlax don't have EQ (since everyone seems to think it's worse, even though it's best for Rhydon), and HB has such a huge delay I think even the worst timed EQ would be capable of dodging it.

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by TTT 8 years 3 months ago

My opinion:
EQ is better, but Rhyhorn candies aren't exactly common and the chance of getting a good moveset on Rhydon is ultimately 1/3 (1/2 for getting the right quick move, then 2/3 for a usable charge move).

So stick with the SE one. It's really close anyways - as clearly shown by the debate here. I think it's pretty non-negotiable that EQ is stronger regardless of how people "feel", but either way it's close and SE has a small benefit in having a lower cooldown.

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