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Dear Gamepress - Max CP list on this site doesn't have atk/def/hp stats for gen 5-6 and megas - oversight?

It would be nice to be able to have complete stats to see which pokemon have potential to be great attackers, but this list only shows stats for gen 1-4 , 7 and alolan pokemon.

Asked by Scytherix6 years 2 months ago

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That is a good question.

Though a few of them can be inferred by main series stat knowledge.

Of the top of my head, the ones I can think of that could be great are Archeops (basically better offensive stats then ramardos, flying subtype might be liability in some cases?) Hydreigon (dark/dragon pseudo, 'nuff said) Conkeldurr (already theorized to be an improved version of machamp when released if same moveset, higher attack, hp, physical defense, though I do not know how the speed mod will affect it) Hydrocannon primarina, with the current stat system, and if it gets water gun will be above kyogre DPS last I checked, Chandelure has the potential t out Ghost DPS gengar. For short, the bulk of the pokemon that threaten to outclass current ones are gen 5 pokemon (as the gen was essentially a soft reboot to the series, many were made with old ones in mind, but slightly shifted stats, the best compairison being machamp and conkeldurr, same base stat total, very similar distribution, but a few points here and there differ).
Megas I wouldn't worry about the stats of those, as most o the ones that likely will be tier topping are already amazing right now; tyranitar, salamence, gyarados, etc. Only one I can think of that woul dbe potentially stand out are the fighint type megas, as current best fighting types machamp, Haryama and Breloom all do not get megas, currently 'inferior' fighting types Blaziken, Lucario and depending on moveset Gallade all have the potential to take that spot with their mega stats because the whole point of them it to be broken. Or mega mewtwo X, assuming it keeps its same moveset, as its psychic/fighting, and has that high of an attack stat as is...add STAB and more attack, yeah forget what I said about the others.

Legendaries are a separate matter, as they at times get the best moves; Rayquaza, SB mewtwo, AS moltres, Raikou, and others they dont; heatran, regigigas, dialga,

The only pokemon that currently have no threats are Rayquaza, Meteor mash metagross, potentially mamoswine as its only competition is Kyurem, a legendary

This may sound terrible, but I wouldn't worry to much about Gen5. There are pokemon that are pretty much guaranteed to outclass previous ones such as Conkeldurr like you mentioned.

Others however won't. Arceops for example, will not be better than Rampardos even with it's best moveset. It has slightly lower attack and much lower defenses. Hydriegon, does not seem like it'll excel in either dark or dragon categories. Garchomp will basically be best non-legendary dragon type forever due to it's insane combo of both great attack and defenses. Dark is an option, but Ttar not only has better attack, but also better bulk. Mamoswine will be best ice attacker forever that's for certain. Kyurem is doomed. Every single ice move it learns is already in the game as charge moves. Honestly, this is fine. Kyurem really needs that nerf due to its stats.

The best improvement well see with gen 5 is with Bug types. Volcarona will be a beast(hopefully).

But to the OP, Gamepress does have a max CP listing for each generation. Ill post the link below. All the stats are correct excluding the legends. They do not yet have the 9% nerf applied.

https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/max-cp

Edit: Here's the one with not only the Max CP but also each stat if people are interested. Once again, the legends do not have the nerf applied yet. Don't worry about GoHub's accuracy, they are clickbaity, but this is accurate.

https://db.pokemongohub.net/pokemon-list/gen-5

What do you mean about things like conkeldurr? As in conkeldurr's guaenteed to outclass machamp, or something is guaenteed to outclass both?

Tyranitar is best rock and dark, I felt that went without saying, however it doesnt have the best dark moves, Hydreigon might overtake it if given better moves. Rock I assume its safe with forever. Garchomp, mostly the same as with tyranitar, megas would only fully secure this placement.

Bug, i remain skeptical, it does have good stats, but Scizor also does as well, and what really makes scizor great is its moveset, its for a simiar reason why Yanmega even with its best set couldnt over take it, the combo it has it just too good. Volcarona might tip the scales as it does have better stats, though i dont expect it will.

Kyurem goes has a signature move, glaciate. I agree the nerf likely will take it to below Mamoswine, but you never know what niatic may do.

The stats, at least for me, arent actually showing up, its just Atk def HP in colored letters but no numbers.

Huh? Interesting. I could've sworn I saw the numbers for each stat before. Anyways, GoHub also has the max cp's plus stats. I know this is accurate because the CP matches up. Go check it out!

https://db.pokemongohub.net/pokemon-list/gen-5

What I meant by Conkeldurr is that it's pretty much Machamp but better in every way possible(higher stats + great movepool). The only way it could not outclass Machamp is if Niantic doesn't give it Counter/Dynamic Punch. This would be crazy given how it learns those moves naturally.

For Volarona, I don't think moveset matters. For ex. it has 264(att) 210(def) and 170(sta) compared to scizors 236(att) 181(def) and 172(sta). Nothing is going to stop this fire moth from being amazing.

Kyurem can be sorta saved by Glaicate (if it was a fast move) but it doesn't learn avalanche. And that's the best Ice charge move.

Generally, Niantic is unpredictable, but we really don't know what's ahead, but for me personally, I won't be worried about Gen5 outclassing what we have right now

I think the gen 5 outclassing is, while not a certainty, a likely possibility. Mostly as Niantic (and this a general overview that applies to most every type, this example is simply the most prevalent) must realize by now we haven't swapped out or machamp for haryama when gen 3 dropped, and with the rebalance breloom was a great attacker, and since coming back to raids, was raided substantially. Them making pokemon better in some ways than older ones nets them much more money as people will raid for the superior counters. Now large scale total outclassing (like if gen 5 mon completely overthrew EVERYTHING we have) wouldn't work, as we dont have enough time to get everything we need to be the best it can in a reasonable amount of time with all the options open, so a slow gradual outclassing of everything is the way things will go, we have seen this already, numerous pokemon are no longer best attackers, not too many, but enough to make us raid a lot, and spend more time to get them. If machamp, weavile and most other pokemon remained the best attackers of their type for the whole game, niantic would make relatively less money compared to if they made a couple pokemon get outclasses every so often and put those better mon in raids.

Think of it like how it was a while ago when golem was in raids, why would you raid golem when Rhydon was there? Previously people raided golem when both were out as it was the best rock attacker, but now it has been outclasses, and thus we have started raiding the other as its the best nonlegacy rock attacker. Something like this very easily could keep happening. If given the pick between new top fighting type Conkeldurr or second best fighting type machamp, both being same tier raids, which would yo go for if conkeldurr was the better pokemon. Now reverse it, if both are raids, but machamp is still the better and you have 12 or so maxed top tier IV ones, would you still raid machamp? Niantic loves to squeeze money out of us.

I think it's pretty undeniable fact that Gen 5 has a lot of potential. Zekrom, Reshiram, Forces of Nature, Swords of justice, not to speak of the many high attack stat nonlegendaries. Some of them require new moves to outclass what is currently the best, but there are a lot of good stats in that generation and if Niantic doesn't create some powercreep, they've frankly failed as a game designer. Why would people get excited for a new generation that doesn't actually bring anything stronger than the previous ones?

Isn't that what people were saying about Gen4 though? We had all these crazy charts and infographics about all sorts of new pokes becoming the best of their types.

But looks where that lead us. Togekiss wasn't our first double fairy attacker. Rhyperior got subpar ground moves, Heatran didn't get Overheat, many of the legends shafted. Why did Dialga and Palkia not get Outrage. Etc...

Granted many pokes did get their best movesets. But this Gen4 it's clear that Niantic isn't afraid of intentionally giving pokes their worst moveset.

Togekiss never had that much potential as an attacker in the first place, its attack stat is too low. Its impact on the meta would've been small even with a fairy fast move, people have simply blown the fairy attacker thing vastly out of proportion.

Some of gen4's bad movesets are almost certainly because Niantic intends to give them exclusive moves later on. You are right in that some of the mons we looked at for their good stats didn't deliver, but I'm not saying all gen 5's good mons will deliver either. Not all of them need to for some of them to be relevant additions to the roster. Gen 4 is also a testament to the fact that they're not afraid to bring us some new mons with great movesets along with great stats, like Mamoswine, Weavile and Garchomp.

Agreed, a fairy fast move would do nothing for togekiss, and even gardevoir if we are being honest. Its like shiny legendaries, we hype it up because we want it, but after we get it we really dont care about it too much.

Most of the legendaries almost certainly seem like eventual signature move candidates. remember when the weather trio came around, the idea of Event exclusive raid event moves wasnt a thing. they got their best movesets.

Niantic is learning how to both satisfy players with great movesets but not make out old mon completely invalidated.

You do realize people can look at your previous post right? There wasn’t a day that went by for months when you weren’t declaring Togekiss was going to be one of the premier Pokémon in the game... now you are one of the few that new it was over hyped!?!?

Did i ever say togekiss with a fairy move would be the new MVP of the meta and everything would be around it? No, at best it would be a new best machamp/dragon tank coutner, or new best defender because of its typing. I even said a while back on a question saying a fairy move wouldn't affect the meta at all unless it was the hydrocannon of fast moves, and even then it wouldn't really change much.

Fairy has some of the steepest competition when it comes to offensive match ups. Why would i say that it would be the best thing in the game? If i did say that it would be that outstanding, i clearly didnt understand how the game worked then. When talking about it from defense, as i do recall talking about this highly as a defender, it was purely because of typing, as a fairy fast move wouldn't do anything as its main use as a defender is purely due to typing, ie hard resisting machamp/dragons, that is completely unrelated to offensive viability with a fairy fast move.

Exactly, if what we already have is the best, whats the point in playing if we dont get something new?
Thats why a lot of people like the gym system post rebalance where im from, new defenders, and with PvP, theres an ever changing meta where you can use so many pokemon, not just the standard "Machamp, metagross, Mewtwo" we used to gym sweep.

A number of those legendaries also have signature moves, zekrom, reshiram, kyurem are all nondragon, the swords of justice have fighting, Genosect's….well its one of 5 types, could act like hidden power, most of the nonlegendary also have absolutely fantastic stats i agree, the popular ones are conkeldurr and Potentially Haxorus, as they have prominent meta types, Chandelure, i did in the spreadsheet a while back game up with hex/shadow ball being practically ontop of SC/lick Gengar's DPS but being much better agaisnt psychic types. More or less gen 5 seems to have more potential for meta shake ups than gen 4, which is pretty d@mn impressive.

Hydreigon has 256 attack to Tyranitar's 251. It is not as bulky though.

Kyurem will get the 9% legendary nerf. It does not need a moveset nerf on top of that, it'll end up with barely better overall stats than Mamoswine after the nerf.

Haxorus or Salamence could become the preferred PvE dragon thanks to their higher attack stats. Garchomp has the best stat product by far, but we've seen DPS rule PvE time and again and Haxorus has a big advantage in attack stat.

Haxorus with the right moves will be a great glass cannon dragon attacker. But even pokemon with higher dps doesn't mean they're overall better. Breloom holds the title for highest fighting dps, yet Machamp is not only preferred but better. Generally, if the dps produced isn't enough to makeup for their fragility it will not be preferred. Rampardos for ex. is glassy but its dps is high enough to make up for it's lack of bulk.

I probably sound like a downer, but its just that I want people to not be concered about previous pokes getting invalidated. Powercreep will happen, but its not as serious as people may think.

Trying to claim that the new generation doesn't have potential isn't the right way to avoid people getting concerned. If something gets outclassed, then it does, but you seldom need to have the best pokemons to get things done in this game. Did releasing FP Venusaur make previously powered Exeggutors useless for everyone? Probably not. I haven't sent mine to the professor.

We have not seen Rampardos in action, so I don't think you can actually make the claim that it's fine even being so glassy without some in-depth analysis behind it.

Breloom's atk stat advantage over Machamp is 7, compared to Haxorus's advantage of 23 over Garchomp. That thing will literally have the same DPS as Rayquaza if it gets DT/OR. And that's significant. Of course, it's going to be glassy enough that in some matchups it won't be the best TTW option, but there's certainly enough of a DPS advantage to give it a good chance. It will depend on the moves that bosses will have, a Draco Meteor from a high-atk boss will OHKO Garchomp and Haxorus all the same, making Haxorus clearly superior. Or if Haxorus gets OHKO'd by a smaller charge that bulky dragons can tank, it'll not do so well. But it does have potential that you can't just hand-wave away by saying Garchomp is bulkier.

Didn't say that it wouldn't. Just seems like many people think every single type of pokemon will be outclassed with Gen5. The same thing happened with Gen4 so I'm basically reliving everything again. Gen4 wasn't at the greatest potential it could be, and I was greatly upset. Because of this, I've held back my expectations of Gen5.

You have a point though. But, I think I'll just refrain from trying to predict how good certain pokes can be from now on.

Its a bit hard to avoid things like that as gen 4 and 5 really are the only gens like this, new pokemon that have the elite stats of their type. Its why when going to gen 2 and 3 there were relatively little switches in what was the best of each type, infact until recently, most every best attacker of type (nonlegendary) was held/in part held by a gen one pokemon, the exceptions being three types that didnt exist in gen 1 (fairy, ark and steel) and tyranitar due to community day exclusive smack down. It was in gen 4 where pokemon's development became a lot more stat focused, and thats largely due to the shear number of pokemon that got evolutions, and with gen 5 it was that the games are essentially a retake on gen 1, up until gen 4, here was almost no competition for best of type.

Exactly why I'm hesitant. See, Gen 3,4, and 5 are my favorites. In pokemon go, many players really only know Gen 1 and maybe Gen 2. So that's why I want to see them be good. When Gen3 first launched, it wasn't very impressive. It's only the legends that drawn mass attention. When Gen4 was being speculated, I was really excited because soon, we'd have a bunch of great, viable pokemon. Once the movesets were revealed, everything just went down the drain. The amount of Gen4 pokes that got poor movesets is just astounding. Because of this, I think Gen5 will be the same. However, Gen 4 hasn't finished yet, so maybe future community days and raid days will improve it. But because of this, I'm keeping my expectations low.

Theres also a large number of moves in the coding that dont have stats yet, its very likely those moves could be added after gen 4 rolls out completely.

Gen 3 wasnt overly impressive as most of them lack the stats, that isnt as comparable to gen 4 where the pokemon do have the stats to compete.

We also dont have all of gen 4, as you said, and community days are always a possibility. Niantic has shown a much greater willingness to have new pokemon/old mon with new moves over take old ones than they have in the past.

I can understand where you're coming from. Since there are unknowns, expectations should be tempered until a pokemon actually does come out. And I can understand wanting to speak up against the belief that a new generation will completely revamp the meta, since no gen so far has done that.

However I think it's good to be aware that there are pokemon with potential and take that into account when deciding what pokemon to power up. EDIT: For example, I don't want to overcommit on Machamps because gen 5 has a lot of fighting mons. I'll just stick to my current team for Dialga and Regigigas raids and not invest heavily into a rejoin team.

For hydreigon, now dont take this as me saying anything bad about tyranitar, but tyranitar doesnt have the best dark moves, less bulky options, with higher attack stats, and identical move sets can still take over. though the relation between the two may become similar to the old relation ship between haryama and machamp.

But its not as though any of these pokemon we have now will be made "bad" they will still be as great as before, though they wont hold that gold medal of best anymore.

Well known fact that Tyranitar's moveset is less than stellar. Houndoom has almost as much DPS with a significantly lower attack stat, so Hydreigon with a better attack stat has a lot of potential. A significant improvement on Tyranitar's DPS thanks to a better moveset tied to a still above average bulk would make for an amazing attacker, and overall much better than Tyranitar.

Hydreigon is a pokemon i'd see as a contender for rivaling Tyranitar, though i wouldn't say it'd wholly outclass it, as theres match ups Tyranitar's rock typing may be more advantageous than Hydreigon's dragon. the two likely will contend with one another as equals, though surpassing the other in either TDO or DPS, similar to dragonite and salamence or prerebalance haryama/machamp, though both may not accurately reflect these two

Certainly, defensive advantage from typings has become even more valuable with the rebalance to SE. But if Hydreigon does receive a significantly better moveset, the only thing keeping Tyranitar relevant will likely be its better availability. New pseudos are always difficult to get candy for.

That they are, though hopefully niantic will give all pseudo's the metagross/tyranitar treatment, or even dratini treatment to make them available a lot more widely.

The pseudos are generally the best pokemon statwise and will likely never be outclassed by anything short of a legendary or another pseudo, hem being rare makes sense, though it at times feels they are impossible to find.

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