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Once the ability for a Pokémon to know two charge moves is implemented, I think the value of FTMs and CTMs is going to totally flip. Right now FTMs are only needed once to get the best fast move (most of the time), to go with the charge move, while the best charge move may take multiple TMs to get. Most players use their dual type Pokémon as one or the other (either have a dark weavile or an ice weavile, but not worth it to bounce between them because you might end up just getting focus blast all the time), but with the ability to now know two charge moves, it might make a lot of sense to have one Pokémon powered up knowing two charge attacks. Rhyperior can be ground and rock, weavile can be ice and dark, roserade with poison and grass, mamoswine with ground and ice (hey, a lot of Gen 4s here...) - but you'd want a lot of switching between fast moves to make that work. Now CTMs are going to guarantee a second charge move so they're not needed as much, but FTMs (once seen as clutter for a lot of people) will skyrocket in value.

Kudos to everyone with dozens of FTMs that you never threw away!

Asked by MasterMaverikk6 years 3 months ago
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I feel like fast tm's will get more valuable, ive got 20 and thats after all the beldum, dratini and venasaur I evolved last weekend

Being able to retool a pokemon's moveset without needing to power up a whole new one will make fast tm's in my oppinion a lot more valuable. For instance if I want a weavile, like you said, I wouldn't need to sink the shear number of candy and dust and charge TMs in to a second one to get one for both sets, I'd only need the one plus the candy and dust for the extra charge move (maybe taking 1 TCM as most pokemon have 3 charge moves so you're guaranteed a max CTM need of 1 most all of the time) and then the single fast TM every so often to switch it to countering what I need.

Certain pokemon wont really benefit from this, things like tyranitar, dragonite, gengar, maybe metagross, who have really onely one best attacking set that's not legacy locked with a fast move (metagross' best set is legacy locked, but it has no best fast move that's legacy locked). So I dont think One will become more valuable over all, but one tm might hold more value to one play than it does to another depending on their set up.

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Tyranitar has two great movesets, Bite/Crunch and Smack Down/Stone Edge. It will benefit tremendously from having Crunch and Stone Edge available to it. Lots of Dragonites with legacy moves (Dragon Breath, Draco Meteor) can add Outrage as second move. Gengar is good with both Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, for different purposes, and before Roserage, Sludge Bomb was also a pretty solid move.

There will be a lot of ways people figure out to use and abuse this second move. Both kinds of TMs will still be very useful.

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However Tyrantiar's other fast moveset is legacy locked, no matter how many FTM's you use on it, a bite one will never get smack down

Most people likely already have their Tyrantiar on their double Stab movesets and its not like fireblast on tyrantiar will be a terrible move even if gotten, it seems damage windows and animation times are gone from PvP which is what seems to have held back fireblast. I wasnt really looking at it from the double charge move perspective, but more so pokemon who wont benefit from being fast move retooled (Plus now we can have a tyrnatiar that can breath fire and not loose its other charge move, it can now be one step closer to being Godzilla)

The double charge moves s going to add a lot of initial value to charge TM's (but not much more than it is now) it seems getting those good moves on them like giving my draco meteor and claw dragonite outrage, but after that, I dont think as much need will be placed on them, where it will then switch over to more valuable fast tm's for pokemon like mewtwo, possibly blissey and giratina. But it is all pokemon to pokemon. one TM wont be definiteively more valueable than the other, unlike now where charge tm's seem to be more valuable because the greater need for them.

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Charge TMs are also more valuable due to the relative drop rates, which in my experience are about 2:1-3:1.

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Thought they had the same drop rates?

Always gotten a ton of one, few of the other and it changed all the time. One raid got 4 (!!!) CTMs, no fast, opposite happened a few days later. One of two teams each raid mostly, tends to be the same rates for me, didnt know there was a difference.

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https://thesilphroad.com/science/raid-reward-odds-april-2018

Doesn't include the reduced Razz info but... only at 5* are they equal. At 3*, you have a 1.33:1 chance of getting a Fast TM and at 2* a 2:1.

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Thank you for that info, I only raid tier 5's most of the time, but thats definitely good to know.

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by TTT 6 years 4 months ago

I don't think the value will so much as flip.

If we're evaluating their values right now, setting Charge TMs to a value of 100 as a reference point, I would say that currently fast TMs are worth about 10.

After the second charge move, I would say charge TMs go to about 40, and fast TMs go to about 30.

Why?

Charge TMs will still have value for lots of pokemon. There are plenty of pokemon with no secondary typed charge move. For example, Raikou. You're TMing for Wild Charge. That's it. You're not going to spend dust and candy to unlock two electric charge moves. Also for type-different sets that aren't useful in PvP - e.g. Machamp. You want Dynamic Punch. Unless the dust cost is low enough that it's worth saving you the risk of wasting charge TMs, there's no reason to get Heavy Slam on Machamp. He won't be useful on PvP or gym defense, and on offense you'll always use Dynamic Punch.

Fast TMs go up in value because, as you mentioned, you can swap moves for a single pokemon. However, you don't need to swap all that often. Like in your example with Weavile - how often do you need double dark or double ice weavile? Likely only when a new raid boss shows up, and it sticks around for a month. Even a full team of them would only work out to a single fast TM per 5 days - assuming raid bosses alternate between your two types (any bosses in between that you simply don't use the pokemon for, is even more idle time without needing to use fast TMs on it). It's unlikely to be a situation like where SB Mewtwo swaps between PC and C so it has the former for psychic raid boss and the latter for Machamp raids all at the same time - which exists in the current case and even then you don't go through too many fast TMs.

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