Which do you think will matter more?
I know we dont know all there it so about the mechanics of PvP, but seeing as a few legacy moves for pokemon could apply, i felt it was worth asking.
From what we've seen of PvP, we know about the protect that blocks charge moves. This brings up some interesting things to consider.
Either will high DPS, lower EPS fast moves edge out because they do a larger amount of damage thats unblock able but not get opponents protects used up for more damage via charge moves. Or Will higher EPS, lower DPS moves edge out because they can waste opponents protects faster but not deal as much damage at the start
And:
And then will faster charging, lower damage charge moves be better for using opponents shields faster but not doing as much once they are used up or will higher damage charge moves be better as they do much more damage with a single usage but do take longer to deplete those shields. (i am aware of the second charge move, but things like opponents predicting/outpredicting isnt a hard thing we can know for sure, this is more so just a basic thought experiment)
Answers
Politoed is a joke, but you could make a scrambled joke of it. Put water fast move, the legacy Earthquake and current Blizzard as charge moves. My two EQ Poli are right near 2000. I think fewer people will put the double moves on 1500 league, so the 2500 and unlimited could provide some twists the 1500 might miss
> I think fewer people will put the double moves on 1500 league, so the 2500 and unlimited could provide some twists the 1500 might miss
I doubt this immensely. Pretty much all of the chatter has been about the lower tier leagues, I've seen hardly any discussion about the Master League save the occasional Shadow Ball/Focus Blast Mewtwo hype. Since the prestige system went away people have been looking for a place for sub-CP Pokemon to shine and have grown tired of using the same counters over and over again. This is a chance for those Pokemon to shine and people are going to have lots of fun getting the most out of them.
Granted there are people that have/save resources...Those that don't, yeah, we're gonna want to get some dual use out of our Top Guns---raids+battling. At least for me raid strength/versatilty>>>>>>>PvP. (I want all my worthwhile Shadowball Mewtwo to have 2 moves, 3 maxed and 2 3680...I have about 1000 stardust)
Dual focus blast/shadow ball mewtwo probably would be one of the greatest generalists in the game. Focus blast n its own wasnt too good of a move before in my oppinion as it wasnt as good of a fighting type attacker as machamp, and mewtwo had much better uses with its other moves, ok, aside from maybe hyperbeam.
But the dual coverage that focus blast and shadow ball have together would let it effectively clear pokemon like metagross and Blissey from gyms and threaten some of its biggest pvp counters. I'm going to enjoy trying my mewtwo out for variety.
I feel like the focus blast/shadow ball mewtwo (which I think we should call 'Blast ball' for short) gets so much recognition because its already a high profile pokemon that has very immediate uses for its double set. Not many other pokemon have as many sets as mewtwo, pokemon like gyarados, Dragonite, metagross and even a solid number of other legendaries only have one major attacking set. The only other pokemon I feel is high profile like mewtwo that also has more than one major offensive set is Tyranitar which only has that because of an event move.
Mewtwo had a sizable number of uses prior to this, and took a big TM or rarecandy investment to make use of them all or even just to get them. The addition of this second moveset drastically cuts the number of both we'll need to use. No other pokemon really fits that same description aside from i'd say mew.
If we are giving dual move Mewtwo a name, then we need it to acknowledge that Shadow Ball will be the first move, as we can't add it as a secondary move (unless that changes)
So I propose that the name reflects Shadow Ball as the first move and so it name should be "Ball Blast" instead.
Just a thought...
I think it's going to be more of a case of big damage vs. little damage charged attacks, and playing chicken with the protect shields. But I'm still hung up on what stat combinations will be best.
There's a unique CP formula that applies to all pokemon. So species A or species B takes its final stats (base + IVs) and plugs them into the formula to get a CP value. Restricting that to 1500 or 2500 gives us two degrees of freedom in the system. One way to think of it is that you set attack and defense, and then the allowed stamina is determined by the formula (within reason).
I also think that, given neutral attacks and no weaknesses/resistances, there will be one ideal combination of attack, defense, and stamina that falls under CP 1500/2500, and allows the most damage to be done and the least taken against any other combination thereof. So the ideal pokemon will have that stat ratio after adding IVs to Base stats. Clearly zero attack and zero defense/stamina are losing propositions, because the first does no damage, and the second can't take any. Somewhere in the middle there's a maximum in damage output and win chance. Any pokemon wants to approach that maximum. So a Pokemon like Gengar would probably have a zero attack IV, 15 defense IV, and some value of stamina. Shuckle would probably have zero defense IV, high attack IV, and indeterminate stamina IV. In each case, these would move the pokemon closer to the ideal combination of total stats. The interesting question, to me, is which pokemon has these ideal stats, or is very close to them. That will probably be a good pokemon for PvP.
And then there's the mechanics, strength of moves, resistances, it's all quite involved.
This should be mathematically solvable and the answer isn't exactly fun.
I'm not familiar enough with the CP formula to go into specifics, but I'm aware that ATK factors into CP as much as defense and stamina do combined.
So generally that would mean your ideal stat distribution is defence + stamina = attack^2, with some constant of proportionality.
So you want a Pokemon quite biased to low attack. If we take a look at Lugia, the TDO King at master tier, you notice it's no where close. However that's because you're just trying to max there.
Looking to Chansey at 1500 tier - it's still no where close. However it's probably the closest any Pokemon gets - which is why Chansey tops the 1500 TDO discussion despite only going to 1200 odd CP.
So the basic result is:
Maximize CP within your bounds while minimizing attack - since no Pokemon can get to 1500CP with sufficiently low attack to have attack squared < defense and stamina.
Ideally you'll have high EPS and faster charging moves on your leading Pokemon. They'll then either absorb shields at record speed, or establish a lead for you while your opponent's shield goes unused.
You'll finish with a Pokemon that has very powerful (but low EPS) fast moves, and ideally flexibility on charge moves. So if shields are used up, they can hit a big charge move for the finish. If one shield remains, you can eat it with the quicker charge move. If both remain, you can likely just ko them with fast moves and leave their shields wasted.
Further, with the cooldown on swapping out, this strategy also works well. Again, you either burn out their shields early, or you kill their first Pokemon first which allows you swap priority (they have to send out the second Pokemon first, so you send out a counter, and if they swap you can too).
So basically the ideal team has a high EPS generalist that can win most matchups, and two high DPS specialists that win fewer matchups but win them hard.
