Build an ideal Gym
Let's say your team got to an EX gym before a EX raid... and you were planing on holding it.
You could coordinate among 6 to make an ideal gym.
What order would you put things.
(((Feel free to post your own orders, or add suggestions to others, I gave mine in first reply))
Answers
Personally, I'd go with the following (assuming people are going to GR the gym to hold it):
1. Blissey with ZH/DG
- still the best defender in terms of overall bulk. The best option, imo, for holding down the first spot and deterring casual attackers.
2. Togekiss with HP/DG
- forces Machamp and Dragon generalists to swap out. HP offers an element of surprise and (depending on the type) may hit for SE damage into its counters.
3. Snorlax with ZH/HS or BS
- Tank #2 to slow down attackers. BS is preferable because of how frequently it will be used and how difficult it can be to dodge.
4. Metagross with ZH/MM
- Forces another swap if attackers went with Machamp to deal with Snorlax. Good bulk, resistances, and MM hits like a truck if not dodged.
*5. Chansey with ZH/DG
- Tank #3. Still has a truckload of HP even after the nerf and might help slowing down attackers. Could be replaced by something else, as Chansey puts almost no pressure on attackers.
6. Milotic with DT or WF/B or S
- All-around good defender with good bulk and movesets. Can surprise attackers with the moset it has on the first round.
* Chansey might get swapped for something else, given that I've been lazy about gyms lately, and I'm not sure how viable Chansey is after the CP rebalance. I know she got nerfed, but I'm not sure if there's now a better option to put in her place.
Edit: added reasons for each choice.
It would depend on how coordinated of an attack I was expecting.
Against low coordination/less knowledgeable players I'd go with something like Blissey-Togekiss-Metagross-Milotic-Dragonite-Muk to take advantage of the tendency to take multiple Machamps to a gym fight. If they have 3-4 Machamps in a default gym team there's a good chance they'll fight some unoptimal matchups, which can easily waste more time than having to go through post-rebalance Chansey and Snorlax.
If I expected an optimal attacker against every defender it would be Blissey-Togekiss-Chansey-Metagross-Snorlax-Wobbuffet/Dragonite. Chansey and Snorlax are still the second and third bulkiest defenders in a vacuum.
I agree largely with advice in this thread (and am highly amused by TheBiggestLeaf's lineup) but I have to call out the wisdom of using Dragonite as a defender.
Yes, it does call for a switch from Machamp, but any 'Mon with a double weakness should be ruled out as a defender. This goes for Dragonite, and even more so now that better Ice attackers (Weavile, Mewtwo with Icebeam) are available.
Other choices without double weaknes to go in between your heavy normals (Blissey-Snorlax) include Togekiss, Metagross, Clefable, Slowbro, Drifblim, Gardevoir.
yes but also remember most ice types arent good, dragonite has steelwing potentially and the only good ice type is weavile which most players dont have. ice beam on mewtwo also doesnt deal as much damage as you'd think to dragonite because its fast move isnt super effective, and if ice beam doesnt KO, dragonite's gonna hit back hard
Also theres the fact dragons do more damage agaisnt dragons even with a double weakness to ice, aside from ice beam mewtwo and weavile, both of which most people do not have high leveled, which does make the ice weakness more or less meaningless. (Ice beam mewtwo's high Ice DPS also is useful more in raids, similar to how Stone Edge on tyrnatiar works, not good for gyms but good for raids)
I normally agree but I think a case *could* be made for Dragonite, especially since it gained a little bulk in the CP rework. Dragon Tail hits hard neutrally and Steel Wing provides counter coverage. Dragon Claw is spammable and Outrage hits hard if not dodged.
Even still, my preferences go to those without dual weaknesses. The exception for me is Salamence purely for style points, although lately I've been using him to tear down Giratina raids.
As long as Mamoswine isn't out, bringing in an ice-type to counter a single Dragonite is a significant cost to pay. Weavile and IB Mewtwo are both relatively rare as raids don't call to have either one powered up and Weavile needs a Sinnoh Stone.
As long as the double weakness isn't exploited by a strong ice attacker, Dragonite is a great defender. It's very bulky post rebalance and hits like an absolute truck.
The fastest Dragonite counter is the extremely limited availability Weavile with a TTW of 12s, the next best is IB Mewtwo with a TTW of 16 seconds and the best non-legendary non-Sinnoh Stone attacker is Jynx with 17s. Clefable goes down in 14s, Togekiss in 18s and Gardevoir in 13s against Metagross. Raikou destroys Slowbro in 17s, Drifblim in 16s and Togekiss in 20s. Moltres kills Metagross in 20s.
Unless the attacker has a Weavile, everything you mentioned except Togekiss and Metagross goes down in a similar time to Dragonite. It's so bulky that as long as great ice attackers aren't widely available, the double weakness isn't an actual liability.
Metagross (ZH / MM)
Blissey (ZH / DG)
Dragonite (DT / O)
Snorlax (ZH/BS)
Togekiss (HP[Dark or Ghost] / DG)
Milotic (DT / B)
I think I'm the first person to buck the trend of putting Blissey first (excluding the team that doesn't have it at all). This may encourage attackers to only attack your first pokemon first (why deal with Blissey if unnecessary) - but that's actually optimal for you. If they manage to get through your berry-wall and knock out the first pokemon by only attacking it, you'll have full berry capacity for Blissey and they're not getting through her (and the rest of the gym) in 10minutes, so you'll get to re-slot that first pokemon, effectively making a 7 pokemon gym.
Metagross features first because he's a good defender against the two most likely gym-party lead offs: Machamp and Metagross. Togekiss would fair exceptionally better against Machamp, but worse against MM Metagross.
Blissey comes second as described above.
Dragonite encourages a swap from Machamp after Blissey.
Snorlax is the second most threatening tank.
Togekiss forces another swap from Machamp. HP(Ground) hits super effectively into both fire and steel (the two most likely counters), however it's actually resisted by Moltres and BB Charizard due to their flying typing. HP(Rock) is doubly super effective into both of them, but is resisted by Metagross. HP(Water) is super effective into fire and neutral into Metagross, while HP(Dark) or HP(Ghost) would be super effective into Metagross and neutral into fire types. Probably best is Dark/Ghost, as the last pick is a Water type that would force a swap from the fire types.
Milotic finishes the defense. Should force a swap from fire types despite not using Water moves.
My guess is that most attackers would come into this leading with a Machamp and taking a beating from Metagross. If they lead with Machamp, they'll probably need at least 3 in total to also deal with Blissey and Snorlax - but may have only taken 2. They'll lose considerable momentum swapping out for Dragonite and Togekiss - probably using a Dragon and Metagross/Moltres respectively. Finally Milotic is left at the end to probably face a Raikou.
