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IV observation: am I missing something?

Today was the day that I traded my final shiny Meteor-Mash Metagross from my sub-account, and once again I fell flat; no lucky, junk stats. Among all 4 traded over, only one came out with "fair" stats, that being my 89% with 15 DEF, 14 HP and... 11 attack.Yup, 11 attack. This combined with the fact that I had ATROCIOUS luck catching even "decent" beldum on community day led me to try putting this guy into Pokebattler at LV40 to see just how much it would lag VS Jynx and...

....it's got a 2.4 second lag behind my best (93% 15 ATK) Metagross at the same level.

As an Ultra Friend (the level of friendship with my sub), this Metagross misses the final break-point entirely, so Bullet Punch is dealing 1 less damage per hit on top of the damage drop from Meteor mash, yet these two are nearly identical in terms of performance. Am I missing something, or should I just go "Close enough!" and raise this guy? He won't miss more than 1 breakpoint regardless, and given its stats the loss of attack equates to 1.6% weaker than a 15 IV.

Guess I'm just working through my bias against low attack while also asking "Am I missing something?" =P

Asked by Raven86 years 7 months ago
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Answers

I'd say that you're not missing something, you're finding something.

The 'cult of near perfect IVs' feels that anything with less than a 15 attack and less than 93% (some say higher than that) is garbage. The actual difference between a 15/15/15 and a 12/12/12 in battle is very small. Further, if you're not going to power it up to 40, just power the 12/12/12 up one more level and they are about even.

The time investment needed to get perfect or near perfect IVs is a search for that last tiny scrap of ability in battle. If you fight 1000 battles with a 14/14/14, maybe 1 time in 1000 the battle will turn out differently because of the lower IVs. Of course, some people want to collect 100% IVs, and if that's fun for them, power to them and they can enjoy the game that way.

So I'd say that you just learned something.

All that said, all else being equal, high IVs are better. But perfection is not required to be very effective in combat.

FYI, right after CD, a friend and I traded our junk Beldums to each other. Of the ~40 we traded, none got lucky, but I did get one at level 30 to come out at 93%, with a 12 defense. We left 10 minutes at the end of the bonus hour to evolve, then had time to do two more trades before our final evolves. Pretty happy with how it all turned out, just wish I had a stronger shiny. But I can live with 4 strong regular and 1 good and 1 adequate shiny.

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“IV cult” is strong out there. It reminds me of Larvitar CD: some players refused to evolve < 90% Larvitars despite having the resources to do so, and ended up with only one or two smack down Tyras.

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It's amazing how many active players are clueless about how IV's really work, and when they matter & when they don't.

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This. Someone someday decided that only the mons above 90% are worth using, and many players follow it almost religiously without really understanding what it means.

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Wow, really? They did not even consider evolving one or 2 more in the last 5min ?

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According to them, they didn’t have other good Larvitars to evolve. And “good” for them were only the >90%.
During the 1hr after Beldum CD a player asked me if he should spend his candies evolving his two 88% (he had evolved only three at that point) since they weren’t “that strong”.

As ScooterJameson said above, most players know about IVs but many of them don’t really know what it means in practice, including veterans.

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I have a 14 15 4 Shiny Metagross and a 15 11 15 Metagross, both with Meteor Mash. They are both of the same level, and the attack is the first number, then defense > hp.

I put them back to back against a Piloswine and the 2 did not survive noticably any longer or shorter.

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by Kazlu 6 years 7 months ago

Oooooh you're multi-accounting and it doesn't turn out the way you would like? I'm so sorry.

It allows you to turn junk IVs (that does not make bad pokémon, just a bit less good) into fair IVs, it cannot be perfect all the time. You did your best, just invest into the best you got, it's not like you've got a choice anyway. If you need one more Metagross, power up the best one you have left. Unless you really want to hunt a perfect by trading with other people.

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Why would you worry about performance to the level of breakpoints against Jynx if you're going in with 2 accounts anyway? It's a trivial duo if you have any kind of leveled counters.

But indeed, sometimes the IVs don't make that much of a difference. In Metagross's case in particular, most of the DPS comes from MM, while BP is there mostly to gain energy for MM. Thus the impact of BP breakpoints is relatively small.

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Just using Jynx as a base example as it's something that Metagross is SE against, resists everything throwb at it, and misses the final break-point. The entire "BP ia just that weak and MS is where the dmg comes from" was my main thought on it, but I figured for sure it would at least be 6-8 seconds different, which is why I posted my question.

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This explanation misses the mark. BP, in fact, does quite significant damage against Jynx (roughly 25-30% of the total damage). And this is exactly why the breakpoint doesn't matter as much. Because the super effective BP deals significant damage, that final breakpoint only takes BP from 12 to 13 damage per hit (about an 8% increase).

It is analogous to confusion breakpoints making relatively little difference compared to psycho cut breakpoints.

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Which is much less of the total damage than if you're using a good fast move and a good charge move, like C/DP Machamp, which deals 40-45% of the total damage with just the fast move when fighting a Blissey. Your point about the damage increase of the BP breakpoint being small is also of course correct. If we combine these theories and increase 30% of the total damage by 8%, we get an overall increase of 2,4%. Pretty small, although not as small as the difference OP is seeing in sims.

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by TTT 6 years 7 months ago

I would guess performance is similar due to how strong MM is.

One attack break point on a low-medium damage fast move should generally make a difference in battle. If for example your fast move makes up 30% of your total damage, and the break point increases your damage from 10 to 11 (10%) then you would expect a 3% increase in DPS.

However, if only 10% of your damage comes from fast moves (due to OP charge move) then that DPS increase is only 1% - much less noticeable.

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You can argue cases where having higher IVs makes a difference but 90% of the time it's largely e-peen and just simply wanting to be "the very best". Attack IV gets the most attention since it contributes the most to total CP and in most cases where a noticeable difference in performance exists is the source of it.

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