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What Gen 4 brings to the table: A 180 degree turn of the meta

It brings many relevant attackers. Let’s see here:

Psychic:
Azelf: Outclasses Alakazam entirely, that is, with Confusion and Future Sight. And unfortunately for Alakazam, it can learn both. It still won’t be better than Mewtwo however, because Mewtwo is just “that good.”

Normal:

Porygon-Z: A generalist that will rival the big Dragons (Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, Palkia, Dialga, Rayquaza) in Partly Cloudy weather, which is extremely common. (With Normal type moves, Tackle and Hyper Beam)

Regigigas: Unnerfed, it will be better than Porygon-Z (It probably will get nerfed) providing that it gets Zen Headbutt And Hyper Beam, it will also top the Partly Cloudy generalist DPS charts, and have monstrous TDO, rivaling Lugia.

Poison:

Roserade: Muk was never really a viable option. Roserade brings the first viable Poison attacker to PoGo, after 3 long generations, outperforming Steel types and Gengar (Yes, including Dialga) VS Fairy targets such as Azumarill and Granbull, and pure Grass types should they ever become raid bosses. With good moves, it will rise to the top n Grass DPS (Razor Leaf/Grass Knot) as well. It will be a force to be reckoned with.

Grass:

Tangrowth: Sporting a slightly lower DPS for a little less than double the bulk of Venusaur, (With Vine Whip and Power Whip or Grass Knot) it will be great against all Grass type targets. (Without the Poison typing, which hurts performance VS Ground types)

Celebi: Why you may ask? Because if there is a move rebalance and Celebi gets Grass Knot and a decent Grass fast move, it will become one of the better Grass types. It’s TDO will be about that of Tangrowth, albeit with less DPS. (Grass Knot should replace the absolutely horrible Hyper Beam)

Sceptile: It deserves a mention. When it does get Frenzy Plant, it’ll outclass Venusaur.

Fighting:

Gallade: More useful in gyms, as it’s slightly worse DPS is compensated by the resistance to Psychic, of which 3 of the bulkiest Gym defender’s move sets revolve around. Still, a great Machamp alternative, up there with Hariyama and unnerfed Regigigas. (Provided that it has Counter and Dynamic Punch) That reminds me...

Regigigas: (Unnerfed) As this Pokemon may very well fly under the radar, (because Normal does not deal SE damage to anything, and it’s Fighting set already holds it back) we will get yet another great Machamp alternative, sporting higher DPS than Close Combat Machamp and a 50% TDO upgrade to Hariyama! Even better, it is not dragged down VS the fat Normal types, as it has no weakness to Psychic nor Fairy moves. It’s Fighting weakness brings little to no consequences as it’s bulk can more than compensate, making this mechanical behemoth able to hold its own among the other Fighting types.

Water:

Floatzel: If it learns Waterfall and Hydro Pump and is relatively common, it’ll be a solid budget option for lower tier raids. (Gyarados requires 400 Magikarp candy for that niche alone)

Palkia: Provided that it learns a Water type quick move, it may outclass Kyogre, and be good against targets weak to Water that have Solar Beam, as well as Fire types. However, if Palkia does get a water fast move, Niantic will probably make Whirlpool worse than the already existing Waterfall, and give it a lackluster charge move that isn’t Hydro Pump or Surf, it will be nothing to write home about. On the contrary, it will be better than the aforementioned Pokémon, and Vaporeon, even without a Water type fast move.

Electric:

Electivire: If this beast gets Wild Charge, Raikou will be dethroned, slightly earlier than expected. (Zekrom was coming anyway) however, Raikou’s bulk remains supreme, still almost eclipsing Electivire VS bosses that deal lots of damage. (Kyogre with Hydro Pump, and if it happens to get Origin Pulse) If it gets anything worse then... well, you all saw what happened to Zapdos.

Magneton: It’s typing is what really makes it stand out. With a double resistance to Flying and overall better stats than Alolan Golem, plus access to the coveted Thunder Shock/Wild Charge moveset, it will be a good tank in those situations. It’s other resistances around the board help too, with an immunity to Poison and resistances to 11 other types. Magnet Bomb is also one of the best moves in the game, and it will be a pretty cool Steel attacker as well, albeit not as powerful.

Rock:

Rampardos: Being the top part of the bread sandwiching Tyranitar in the middle, it will be the undisputed DPS king of Rock types on release. (Unless it gets Metal Claw/Rock Tomb, which I don’t see happening) “It’s only shortcoming is it’s bulk, which is comparable to Alakazam.” says Gamepress.

Rhyperior: Provided that it gets Smack Down, (And not the Rhydon situation) it’s well rounded stats have its TDO skyrocket. Basically, Rampardos will have the best DPS, able to overcome double weaknesses in Partly Cloudy weather, Rhyperior will have monstrous TDO, and Tyranitar will be in the middle, still being a great pick. If it gets Rock Wrecker, then it’s all over for Tyranitar. (Unless if the evolution it’s or way to evolve is ridiculously hard to do) If it gets Drill Run, it can rival Groudon VS Poison, Rock and Steel types, but it’s unlikely.

Dragon:

Palkia: It will surely challenge Rayquaza, but in quite a few situations, it comes out below in DPS. It’s TDO is great though, being about on par with Dialga and Garchomp.

Dialga: Being the first Dragon that isn’t weak to Dragon attacks makes it an excellent attacker into every Dragon type available. (Except itself) It finds itself behind Palkia and Rayquaza as the nerf hit it quite hard, but it’s niche puts it higher VS Dragon types. It will also rule Steel types if it gets a decent set.

Garchomp: Better than Dragonite and Salamence, this Dragon shines where it has a triple resistance to Electric moves. It’s Ground Side is also solid, especially VS Electric type raid bosses. (It’s the better Flygon)

Fire:

Magmortar: Better than Entei (Not in TDO but that doesn’t matter as Heatran already will outclass it) and Flareon with Fire Spin and Overheat. Depending on how long Heatran is available, Magmortar may get the niche of being easier to obtain. It’ll still be a solid pick, albeit outclassed.

Heatran: The Pokemon to end the debates on who is the best Fire type. Not Magmortar, Moltres, or Entei. Heatran boasts great stats as well as double resistances to every type Fire deals super effective damage to. It’s TDO is about 20% higher than Entei, and while it may lag behind Moltres in neutral DPS, it makes no room for anything else in specialist matchups. It’s also a solid counter to Blissey, double resisting Dazzling Gleam (A bonus) and sporting a resistance to it’s Normal and Psychic set, dealing good damage with Fire Spin and Overheat. (Resists Snorlax’s Hyper Beam, Heavy Slam, Body Slam and Zen Headbutt, plus Slaking’s Yawn and Play Rough) However, it’s DPS crown may not last as long as expected. If and when Blaziken gets Blast Burn, it will rule Fire type DPS thanks to its better than Charizards attack stat. But not to worry, as it’s bulk is only about as good (if not, worse) than Flareon.

Ghost:

Mismagius: Since it doesn’t learn Shadow Claw, it’s only use is being a bulkier Banette with a lower Attack stat and DPS. It’s passable VS Psychic and Ghost raid bosses with Focus Blast, but there are better options.

Flying:

Straptor: Access to Wing Attack and Sky Attack, and an Attack stat above 220? It will Double Flying Rayquaza easily, however Rayquaza still has better TDO vs Fighting and Grass types.

Honchcrow: While it will probably only rule one category, Flying or Dark, it certainly does well in this role too.

Togekiss: More tank than anything, it’ll serve well as an anchor, but nothing more.

Dragonite: If it somehow gets a good Flying fast move, it may challenge some of the above picks!

Fairy:

Togekiss: If it recieves Fairy Wind and Dazzling Gleam, it’ll instantly outclass Gardevoir, provide that the move isn’t really bad. (luckily Kirlia can evolve into Gallade too) It’ll earn the title of tankiest Dragon slayer, better than the Normal Dragons. It isn’t of much use though, as Rayquaza is double weak to Ice and Dialga takes neutral damage from that set. (Thank the Steel typing) It will be really good against Palkia though.

Bug:

Yanmega: Unfortunately, Yanmega cannot learn X-Scissor, putting it behind Pinsir in DPS. It’s kind of like a Frenzy Plant Venusaur to Tangrowth, as Yanmegas TDO is vastly superior.

Dark:

Weavile: With Snarl and Foul Play, Weavile surpasses Tyranitar in DPS, but it’s bulk isn’t great. (Especially VS Focus Blast Gengar, Mewtwo and Alakazam) Since there are higher DPS options, Weavile should be more suited as an Ice type specialist.

Darkrai: You will probably only get 1, but it’s power rivals that Dragonite in a vacuum as a generalist. (Only Fighting, Dark and Bug resist t) It competes against Gengar as a Glass countr and usually comes out on top, except versus Focus Blast rivals. Again, you only get one, so Gengar keeps the niche of being easier to obtain.

Honchcrow: Another canaditate that can learn Snarl and Foul Play, it will pass Tyranitar in DPS if it gets those moves, only coming behind Gengar and Darkrai for DPS versus Psychic and Ghost types. It’s really glassy though, even with a double resistance to Psychic and taking neutral damage from Focus Blast. (Worse than Weavile in TDO)

Ice:

It’s the type that changes the most.

Mamoswine: Remember the old days of when Ice types were balanced out? Prepare for change, Mamoswine packs a bigger punch than quite a few legendaries. It tops quite a few DPS charts, and unlike Ice types of before, it doesn’t need a double weaknesss to be the best. Even with a weakness to Grass, it still does better than the other two Ice types of this generation, by a landslide. It can also do well in a Ground type standpoint, but it’s only a bit better than Rhydon, even with Bulldoze.

Weavile: Weavile and Glaceon will share a Machamp-Hariyama relationship, with Mamoswine mastering both. Weavile has more DPS, and Glaceon has higher TDO. The latter is easy to obtain, and the former, while not impossibly hard to get, is less common. They will serve players well, for those who don’t have Mamoswine yet.

Glaceon: Avalanche is in its movepool! If somehow the aforementioned better picks to do not recieve it, Glaceon will best the Ice department.

Either way, the top Ice types now, (Articuno, Jynx, Walerin) will no longer be viable. In the end, in the absolute worst case scenario, most Pokemon we know of as the best will be outclassed. Only Groudon, Mewtwo, and surprisingly, Pinsir remain unchanged. (Kyogre and Raikou are still pretty safe bets though)

And don’t get me started on the new gym defenders.

Asked by DatLocalKatcher6 years 8 months ago
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Answers

I Agree with a lot of what you say, and have been saying it myself, gen IV is the gen that turned the main series on its head with all that it did, and this game will be no different. Im glad people arent treating this like 'the games going to remain the same, everything that worked before will work now' because it largely wont. Gen three only added maybe one pokemon that had a chance to compete with existing kings of the type, gen IV has almost 2-4 per type, with fairy only having 1, and the only exception really being bug. Some like tyranitar and dragonite will be powerhouses, but even they are facing some very stiff competition from Rhyperior and Garchomp. Electivire may outpace Raikou in DPS with raikou still holding TDO.

I know im going to get a lot of flak for this.
Dont forget theres Lucario, which likely can outpace machamp as a fighting type due to other resistances, gallade's still weak to fairy while Lucario isnt to that or psychic, plus it can get Aura sphere and force palm, or drainpunch all of which are yet to be added and one being closely linked to Lucario it can also double as a steel type while machamp can only be somewhat passable as one

That is, provided, fighting isnt made obsolete by people wising up to not put all normal type tanks in gyms. Tanky stats =/= tanky mon, a gym with all the normal tanks and tyranitar is easy to clear out but one with blissey, and 5 non shared weakness pokemon takes much longer. As well as theres more flying, ghost and poison types in gen iv, all of which can really slow down fighting types, and some of which do have actually stats for tanking as well as type combinations that will pose a threat to other generalists

A lot of people are planning for gen IV like it will be the same as gen III, it wont, a lot of pokemon that weren't good before will become a lot better, and pokemon that were spectacular now will fall behind, just look at what happened with Alakazam, Golem and vaporeon, all were made a lot less relevant when they were once some of the best of their type.

The outclassing of most pokemon we know seems likely, as the game's always about continuing to play to stay on top. For example ninantic wouldn't just add machamp from the start of the game and keep it the best forever, it would be a terrible business decision, no one would bother to go for any other fighting type. it only has stayed this long because most other fighting types all have some significant problem associated with them, either Regional exclusive, bad stats or the inability to learn a better combo (this is one of the reason i think force palm hasn't been added even though medicham can learn it, they're saving it for something better) this doesnt just apply to machamp, this applies to a lot of pokemon, machamp is just the most easy to illustrate this with as its a universally used pokemon, this can realistically happen with magmortar raking fire from moltres/entei, Roserade poison from gengar, Magnazone taking steel from Metagross. There are very few safe bets going forward, the only ones i can realistically see are Venusaur, dragonite, tyranitar, Scizor/Pinsir, Mewtwo, and maybe Kyogre

The new gym defenders is something im really looking forward to, there will finally be an actual shift in the meta because people right now haven't havent fully realized the tanky stats =/= tankymon thing, and thankfully, gen IV introduces some better tanky pokemon statwise with nonfighting weak types, a shift that will compeltly change the gym meta, yes blissey will stay, but many others will likely be tossed out

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I agree with you. I think there are 2 things we need to keep in mind. 1. Legendary vs non legendary 2. Usefulness.

There is always appeal for non legendary pokemon due to candy costs. Also, even tho many pokemon will be outclassed by another, that doesn't make the former useless. Gyarados is completely outclassed by Kyroge, however, Gyarados is still a very useable and effective pokemon, plus it doesn't require rare candies. The backbone of my fire team is still Flareon, and I use Jolteon if I need electric.

I guess you also have to consider which you prefer, glassy or bulky. Pokemon like Gengar will remain a favorite of many. I personally prefer more tanky options.

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giratina will beast in the ghost department

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Depends on what they do about its forms, altered form is more tanky, origin is the more offense oriented

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I don't see the meta changing that much, 45 degrees maybe. But it's true that next generation will bring something fresh. Gen 3 was quite disappointing in terms of movesets for the big non legendary (still hoping metagross gets a CD new move).

The analysis is thorough and makes a nice article. Thanks!

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Thats one of the reasons people think this will be the same as gen 3, there wasn't a big change when it happened, most of the pokemon in gen 3 weren't too outstanding to begin with, but thats the opposite of gen IV

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Yes i agree. Gen 4 and 5 is the epitome of power creep. It applies in all regards and it doesn't matter if you play the NDS or Pokemon GO, it's here. You need to blame nintendo for this because they make the pokemon and gen 4 and 5 is just another power creep fest while the Megas in Gen 6 bring that to a maximum. Gen 7 won't be that interesting, but slow pokemon (Which Gen 7 has a lot) translates to extremely powerful ones in Pokemon GO.

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