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The damage balls problem in a large group

So today for the giggles I have decided to participate in a Kyogre raid with tanks only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUtOuyJ3Y6Q

The team consisted of what most would call here, 'absolute trash', dealing no super effective damage to Kyogre whatsoever, some have non-ideal movesets (snorlax), and none are high level either. This team suffered 3 deaths and fight ended with Slaking:

Team 1:
Lugia Level 30, ES/Sky Attack
Snorlax Level 31, ZH/Body Slam
Snorlax Level 30, Lick/Hyper Beam
Slaking Level 34, Yawn/Hyper Beam

Then I show a legit attempt, with Level 40 counters and exhausting all the DPS options, suffering significantly more deaths 8 deaths and the fight ended with the second Jolteon (EDIT: This raid was done with 15 players instead of 20. Instead, I will normalise the deaths to the 200 seconds mark which was the timer at the end of the first raid. I've actually experienced 8 deaths, but lets count it as 6 because only 6 fainted by 200s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbny6L1Iymo

Team 2:
Raikou Level 40 TS/WC
Zapdos Level 40 CB/TB
Exeggutor Level 40 C/Solar Beam
Groudon Level 40 MS/Solar Beam
Sceptile Level 34 BS/LB
Sceptile Level 34 BS/LB
Sceptile Level 35 BS/LB
Jolteon Level 30 TS/TB
Jolteon Level 30 TS/TB

The result was that in both attempts I get 1 damage ball while I suffered significantly more deaths in attempt 2. What is the incentive then, to use optimal counters if given a large group?

Does anyone think that the 2 damage ball threshold should be 10% damage instead of 15%? And should DPS be relative and not absolute? The level 40 with proper counters should get more damage balls than a Level 32 who turns up with the rubbish I listed above.

Asked by Lecafe887 years 3 months ago

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Answers

This is why I'm always the guy at raids that splits the group. There's the higher individual ball bonus with the added incentive of splitting by team (Usually Mystic and Non-Mystic).

Kyogre with Blizzard costs lots of revives so in those cases larger groups may be better (since revives are an issue currently). If you are in a group with lots of revives you can still split it for damage balls but you are less likely to make it happen, especially since Kyogre is the hardest raid boss to date.

Another thing to keep in mind was the rainy weather in the second video. That probably contributed to taking more damage too.

I don't really see any problem with showing up in a large group with decent Lugias and high-level Snorlax. It's definitely an entirely different thing than using double-psychic Blisseys. The boss is going down either way and you have the people to back it up. The tradeoff is that no one is going to get many damage balls. It still influences the Team Bonus though so min-maxers need not fear that their efforts are for nothing (unless they're on Team Instinct)

As the reply below I don't thing the weather boost mattered. I'll normalise the amount of faints by the time fight number 1 ended so any deaths after the 200s mark in fight 2, I will discount. I will edit the OP.

True thing about the team balls point. In attempt 2 my team bonus shrank when I didn't use any serious pokemon so you've got a good point there (but the way the chart displayed, I doubt I'd get more than 2 team balls given how team valor did quite a bit of damage)

I'd love to be that guy to split the group as well, but when 3 dudes pop up at a bridge raid, another 4 of them on the other side, and with 13 of them being 'air support', I have to, sadly, use the public lobby and play with the spoofers.

Look at it this way: You're stocking up on Revives/Potions (Since with large groups and tank lineups you aren't using most of them) to prepare for getting lots of balls but using lots of revives in Rayquaza 3-4mans.

To further save revives, you can have your Pokemon die due to dodge glitch so that it will be alive after the battle with a sliver of health, then use hyper/max potions to fully restore them.

There is some key points you don’t factor in here. Your first group was 20 and 2nd was 14, and there’s no way to tell what trainer levels or teams each group used. Also, as mentioned from u/WaterYouWading4, the 2nd Kyogre has a weather boost meaning you took more damage.
The current ball distribution based on damage encourages smaller teams of the same colour. Maybe the 2 damage ball threshold should be 10% since a group of 10 can easily take down any raid boss, and its likely there would be a relatively even distribution of dps from the 10. So most would get 2 while some would get 1.
I may start implementing some tank counters into large groups I’m subject to.

I agree about the group size but the weather boost was almost irrelevant - it was a blizzard kyogre we are talking about here so everything except my raikou and groudon was getting wrecked anyway, fast move or not. EDIT: I have edited my original post and I will 'normalise' this attempt by only counting the deaths up until the 200s mark for fight 2, since that was when fight 1 ended.

Let's set the potions argument aside for now. I don't actually mind because I still have an excess. For group 1 I had 20 people, true, but doesn't it even give me less time to squeeze in damage? The group 2 had less people so I actually had even more time to squeeze in damage. Even with all that, I still managed to get the same reward when I included SLAKING in my lineup?

The interesting part is that you got 1 ball in group one. With 20 players you have to do better than average to reach the 5% damage mark, which means either it was a weak group or some ppl were filling revives instead of fighting.
I raided yesterday with a guy who have 2 accounts, he told me that since the group is large enough he will sit his alt account in the lobby to save revives.

You can do that?

Huh.

I think in your Team 2 Zapdos, Exeggutor and Sceptile are bad choice, especially Exeggutor and Sceptile. Some of them even couldn't use charge move. With only Blizzard Kyogre 1 Raikou and 1 Groudon is not enough. Your team is missing Solar Beam Ho-Oh. And yes, with blizzard Kyogre in large team is not easy to get 2 dmg balls.

Sceptile has Leaf blade so will get at least 2 off. Zapdos will get 1-2 TB and the exeggutor will most likely get a SoB off if he is in the first slot.

I slot my level 40 Sceptile first to get 4+ Leaf Blades.

Rather than going to team B, I have team A as a battle party, and selectively revive before going back in. I would not revive my Sceptile, but would revive my Raikous (3). The reason is that if you go back in on a charge move, Sceptile could be instantly one shotted. I also maximize damage by reusing my best attackers.

Either way - you have a good point. I have been wondering about slotting in a Play Rough Slaking, and switching to it whenever I anticipate an incoming charge move. Eat the charge and fire back a Play Rough, then switch back to await the next opportunity. Not sure if the switching will be fast enough to make this worthwhile, though.

I used to get 3 balls every raid. Like you said right now its usually 1 rarely 2. You either have 15-20 people or 0.

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