Obviously Groundon is by far the best ground type attacker and takes over Rhydon here. But apparentely with getting Solarbeam he is now considered to be the best grass-type attacker too? Is he truly overtaking Exeggutor as the best grass type? What moveset will you be aiming for at the end of the month?
There is no Meta but i'll bite anyway.
Groudon is clearly not the best grass attacker. Grass' only usefulness is for beating water and water is SE vs Groudon. Combined with groudon not having a grass quick move, it won't outperform eggy.
Grass' strength against Ground and Rock are pointless, water beats them aswell and everyone's got water types. I don't play anymore but this stuff is still really obvious.
gamepress are wrong on this one. You can thank me later ;)
Groudon has far higher Attack than Gyarados OR Vaporeon, and it also resists Rock, unlike Water-types. Its Solarbeam would likely outperform any water type, especially since Mud Slap is super-effective on Rock-types too.
The Pokemon that challenge it are Pokemon like Exeggcutor, which is likely still slightly stronger in terms of total Grass damage, but with much lower bulk and no Rock (Or Dark, Tyranitar...) resistances.
Gyarados will still do more damage than Groudon, it has a STAB hydro pump and a STAB water move. When compared to mud shot+non stab solar beam, Gyarados will have higher DPS vs a ground or rock.
Groudon is by far the best ground attacker, you're better off giving it its ground moves and letting eggy deal with water types! Your Tyranitar comparison is pointless, since Machamp outclasses everything vs Tyranitar.
Apparently STAB has gone back up to 25%? Mystifying decision that, if i was in charge of balancing the meta i'd cut STAB to 10%. Higher STAB seriously hinders the variety of viable moves on any pokemon.
Groudon does not get STAB and that matters a lot. Look at pokebattler, Gyarados deals significantly more damage to Groudon than SoB Groudon does. That tells everything we need to know about that comparison.
Vaporeon has horrible attack and was never really a good DPS mon anyway. Gyarados with WF outclasses it by so much it's not even funny. As for Exeggutor, Gyarados deals more damage when both are SE. Gary has a better moveset and higher attack stat.
Vs Groudon is not an accurate comparison, because Gyarados resists all of Groudons attacks save Dragon Tail and Solarbeam, the latter of which Groudon is weak to.
Consider a raid against Tyranitar with B/Cr, a setting which favors neither attacker over the other.
Vs Gyarados (W/HP): https://www.pokebattler.com/fights/attackers/GYARADOS/quickMoves/WATERFALL_FAST/cinMoves/HYDRO_PUMP/cp/3281/defenders/TYRANITAR/quickMoves/BITE_FAST/cinMoves/CRUNCH/levels/40/ivs/FFF/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?includeDetails=true&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&seed=1513557023924
Vs Groudon (MS/SB): https://www.pokebattler.com/fights/attackers/GROUDON/quickMoves/MUD_SHOT_FAST/cinMoves/SOLAR_BEAM/cp/3281/defenders/TYRANITAR/quickMoves/BITE_FAST/cinMoves/CRUNCH/levels/40/ivs/FFF/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?includeDetails=true&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&seed=1513557046747
Groudon takes only 1.5s longer, and deals much more damage over the course of its Health Bar. If this doesn't change Groudon enough for you, then consider putting it up against a raid boss like RT/SE Golem, which Groudon resists, while Gyarados remains vulnerable.
Comparisons against regular gym pokemon aren't really that useful for determining what pokemon is good as a raid counter due to how they often involve either overkilling the defender by a significant amount or ending the fight with a half-charge bar.
If you checked Golem counters, you'd have noticed that Gyarados is top DPS against double rock movesets too. Yes, Groudon is tankier and gets a comparative advantage sometimes due to different typing, but if you care about the most important thing, which is DPS, Gyarados is most often the pick.
I actually think Water Gun is marginally better than Waterfall. Compare 10 DPS and 10 EPS with Waterfall's 13.33 DPS and lackluster 6.67 EPS, and then factor in Water Gun's added dodging potential. Waterfall is a much-preferred Water move on gym defense, however.
Gyarados is certainly a more potent Water-type attacker, and is especially useful in Groudon battles due to neutral Grass resistance and double Ground resistance, but Vaporeon doubles as a demi-tank.
Vaporeon's 205 is very low attack stat for top DPS of its type, yes. This was always known, as was known that if either Kingler or Gyarados gets a good double water moveset Vaporeon will instantly lose its throne as the highest DPS water mon.
Speaking in terms of DPS now that Gyarados has Waterfall, Vaporeon is very clearly outclassed. There simply is no competition there, Gary can solo Ninetails, Vapo can't. Gary's damage is so much better that it will usually have higher TDO too despite Vaporeon being bulkier.
Whether you want grass or water against rock/ground pokemon now depends on the weather. According to cursory checks on Pokebattler, Gyarados pulls ahead when you do not have any beneficial weather, but a lot of grass pokemon pull ahead in sunny/clear weather. If you life in an area with mainly sunny/clear weather, a grass attacker will do better than water.
You are right that Groudon is still not top of the top grass attacker though.
I don't exactly agree with Harry above, but I disagree with this. Eggy still remains the strongest grass attacker.
Eggy has base 180 damage with Solar Beam (like everyone else), and adds in STAB for a total of 225 (yes, it's back to 25% since Gen3 came out). Groudon does not have STAB. and remains at 180, being lower by 25%.
Eggy has an attack of 233+IV, so lets assume 12 for everyone (if you want 15, you can do the math yourself), giving a total of 245. Groudon has 270+12 = 282. Groudon's attack is about 15.1% higher than Eggy's, which does not make up for the 25% STAB bonus. So Eggy still leads by 10% even after stats are factored in.
Now, Eggy has bullet seed, not a blistering attack, but it generates energy very quickly. Groudon's Mud Shot also generates energy very quickly, but it isn't a grass attack. This gives Eggy a clear win as best grass attacker.
Groudon is a lot tougher than Eggy. Groudon doesn't have some of Eggy's weaknesses (fire and bugs comes to mind immediately). But for pure attack, double grass Eggy is still the grass king. Celebi? Doesn't have a single grass attack (as of now, that could always change.) Venusaur - much lower CP, comparable toughness. Ho-Oh? Would be lovely if it was more effective with Solar Beam, but it's not effective with anything except Fire Blast, and that's a nerfed Overheat.
Finally, the above assumes equal levels. The easiest way to get a Groudon is to raid one on a Sunny/Clear day, and power it up from 25. But with Eggy, you can catch an Exeggcute with strong IVs and evolve it to a level 35 Eggy on the spot; Eggy is way more resource efficient, and it's easy to get 3-5 of them to have ready to fight.
Easier to get high levels. Stronger Base attack. Grass quick move. These easily overcome Groudon's higher stats to make Eggy the undisputed king of grass.
Groudon is crazy strong, and is better than Rhydon, but isn't the best Grass attacker, just like he's not the best Fire attacker, or best attacker of any other type, except Ground. (And ground is kind of weak, not as bad as bug, but soft.)
i dont know. its tough. the problem with his moves (besides them being only one bar) is that the flying type resists both ground and grass. im leaning towards having him with either quick move paired with earthquake. he gets stab and can crush rock and electric types with that moveset. i agree fire blast is pointless, but i would still take eq over sb at this point. i wouldnt attack vaporeon or gyarados with a groudon anyway. raikou/zapdos is still a better option to me esp against gyarados.
Exeggutor: 233 attack stat, gets STAB on grass, which makes it equal to a mon with 279 attack stat that doesn't get STAB.
Groudon: 270 attack stat.
The math is pretty simple. In most cases, Exeggutor (and similarly Sceptile) outclasses Groudon in grass-type DPS. Groudon is significantly tankier however and can easily end up with more TDO. The typing can of course give it additional advantages like the FB Groudon that you mentioned. Then again, Eggy is tankier against SoB Groudon.
I would say hold off on any moveset judgements/decisions or tms for groudon... at the moment. Why? Because precipice blades and origin pulse have just had assets added to the game. When they become available they will be the BEST moves for the hoenn legendaries. Groudon and kyogre will be incredible with those moves, so save those tms atm.
