4x Effective or Weather-Boosted?
For example, against Tyrannitar on a rainy day, would it be better to use Machamp (4x effective) or Gyarados/Vaporeon (2x effective + weather)?
Answers
STAB is back up to 1.25 since the Gen3 release.
Machamp will have a base damage of 90 (DP) times 1.25 for STAB times 1.96 for double weakness, totaling 220.5. Gary will have a base damage of 130 (HP) times 1.25 for STAB, 1.20 for weather buff, and 1.40 for single weakness, totaling 273.
However, we need to consider that DP is a two bar move, so more will be fired off (we could compare Close Combat, but let's go best against best). Additionally, the attack of the attacker needs to be factored in, and Gary is a mere 3 points stronger than Machamp at the same level. On balance I think that it's close, but a slight win for DP. Gary will hit a fair amount less often, but slightly harder. I think he'll be more like a Close Combat Machamp, not a Dynamic Punch Machamp. Now, if we had DP going head to head with Surf, that would be interesting, but DP would win easily.
Or how about Poliwrath with RT/DP vs. weather buffed RT/HP? I still thing DP wins by a little bit.
Without weather, you'd use Machamp for superior DPS, via the double weakness to fighting.
The double weakness is equivalent to 1.96x, if I remember correctly.
STAB bonus is 1.2x, and weather (rain) bonus is 1.25x, so together those equal 1.5x.
So Machamp would still be better, by virtue of 1.96x being a bigger multiplier than 1.5x.
However, Garydos and Vaporeon would still be great attackers to round out your team after Machamp!
It's not a 1.96x vs 1.5x comparison. Because if you include STAB bonus on Gyarados/Vaporeon, don't forget Machamp using fighting moves has STAB as well, and Gyarados/Vaporeon also have a super effective multiplier against Ttar (1.4x).
Plus, weather bonus is 1.2x, not 1.25x.
I didn't include STAB because Machamp/Gyarados/Vaporeon all have STAB and when comparing them the STAB factors cancel out. But if you want to include STAB:
Machamp: 1.2*1.96 = 2.352.
Gyarados/Vaporeon with weather boost: 1.2*1.4*1.2 = 2.016.
Still Machamp / fighting types, as they still have a multiplier advantage, they have STAB and 2x super effective, while water with weather have STAB, 1x super effective and weather bonus, which cancels out to super effective vs weather, which is 1.4x vs 1.2x.
Fighting types (or at least the good ones) will still deal more DPS than a rainy Gyarados, though water types can help if you're having issue against Iron Tail and/or Fire Blast, mainly Fire Blast if you're affected by the dodge glitch.
But even then I'd still use Machamp or Hariyama over rainy Gyarados. Because if you're trying to do Tyranitar with as few people as possible you need as much DPS as possible, so fighting types are still preferred.
And if you have plenty of people, again you'd still use fighting types for DPS to maximise damage balls because survivability won't be an issue, maybe with the exception of Close Combat Machamp against Fire Blast since the dodge glitch could mean you faint before using it.
Don't bother with Vaporeon, even against Iron Tail + Fire Blast you'll do more or less the same damage with fighting types, but do it in a shorter amount of time just because Vaporeon hasn't got enough DPS even with the extra survivability.
This entire thread just reinforces my view that weather patterns shouldn't affect your choices in battles. The bonus is just that, a bonus, it's nice but isn't game changing and won't supplant the optimal counters from normal circumstances. Even if you consider the bonus applied to the raid boss/defender, it will just make the battle more difficult, there isn't going to be a more effective choice than the normal one.
