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Why can't people accept that Stone Edge isn't a good move?

It's a fact. But whenever I mention it here, many people disagree, and I get some downvotes. When someone says it on TSR reddit, that person gets downvoted.

Stone Edge does 100 damage for a full bar of energy. That's 1 DPE, one of the lowest in the game. Close Combat is exactly the same as Stone Edge (100 damage/full bar), except for the type.
Many people consider Close Combat a mediocre move. But why not Stone Edge?

Yes, Stone Edge is fast, so it is easy to dodge with. But does that make it a great move, when it does mediocre damage?

Edit: Minor Text Fixes

Asked by DragoniteSlayer7 years 4 months ago
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Answers

by Sebhes 7 years 4 months ago

Lack of better alternatives makes it best in his class.

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To be exact, lack of better alternatives on relevant Pokemon. I just checked the relevant rock types, it seems none can learn better rock charge moves.
But does that make it a great move?

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Rock Slide is better, but you are right that no one relevant learns it. In the old gym system, Graveller with Rock Throw/Rock Slide was good for prestige against fire types, especially double weak Charizard.

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Sudowoodo is revelant, a team of 6 can solo a Scyther, someone posted a video hours ago.

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But I have never found any high level Sudowoodo with Rock Slide, and I don't want to burn charge TMs on or dump stardust into a Sudowoodo.

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You're right on that.

Not necesarrily a great move, but a possible explanation to your question.

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Because people know that Stone Edge is the best charge move for Golem so it must be a good move right? I've noticed the same trend but nothing we can really do except keep talking about it.

To answer your last question, if easy dodgeability was such an important factor, there would be people purposedly running around with CC Machamps for easier dodging. I don't think there are, because raw DPS is worth so much more than dodgeability.

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by mahzza 7 years 4 months ago

I get downvoted every time I say it too. I'm not changing my mind.

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I feel that due to the fact that it's a 1 bar charge move it bodes better when coupled with a fast attack that either: - has an incredibly short cooldown OR generates energy helllla fast

Also I really like your edit hahah

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My original post stated that Stone Edge had 1 EPU (energy per use), implying that the energy cost of using Stone Edge is only 1 energy!

What I actually intended to say is that Stone Edge only does 1 DPE (damage per energy).

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Why is Thunder being considered as a move that is only good for the people who want to dodge? There are better moves that can actually make up the 1 missed dodge with their DPS. And if you are lucky enough, you might not even miss that 1 dodge!

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Mediocre Damage is better than No Damage.

Without an optimal phone and internet connection, Dodging is based more on Luck than on Skill. (The number of times my Mon has been jumping around the screen and still been hit by a Charge Move from a Boss or Defender... ARGH!), so when you really need something to hit and hit hard, Stone Edge is where it's at for Rock types.

Is it a good move? Not compared to most 1 Bar Charge moves it's not - it's terrible compared to most. Absolutely terrible. But it is the best that Rock has to offer for the majority of players. Now that I've gotten up upgraded phone (LG G6) and a new, more consistent ISP, I'm finding it much, much easier to dodge. Easy enough that I'm now finding that my biggest problem with Raid Battles is doing enough damage rather than trying to stay alive to the end. (Except for Ninetails. Holy (bleep), Ninetails with Solar Beam is unfair.) Now I'm able to use Crunch for my Tyranitars more effectively, and Aqua Tail, and other 2-3 bar moves because I can dodge more often than ever before.

But with my old phone? 1 bar charge moves were the only ones I could use reliably. Everything else was too little damage given for too much damage likely taken. So Stone Edge was the way to go for Rock types. I'm pretty sure I'm not in a minority of players (maybe a minority of POSTERS here but not among players) in that, so Stone Edge would be the best move for most of us.

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Stone Edge does have low power (base damage). But it is not only fast and easy to dodge with, it hits fast. This won't be relevant again until PvP, but in the old gym system, I used to hate going against Stone Edge because it was nearly impossible to dodge. Attacks like Hyper Beam or Earthquake are eminently dodgable, Stone Edge is not. It's much tougher to take 100 from a stone edge than to take 150/4 from a dodged hyper beam.

Further, the power per energy is low, but that isn't all that makes a move. Everyone raves about Dynamic Punch and complains about Close Combat, but my calculations show that Dynamic Punch only does about 10% more cycle damage per second than Close Combat (both paired with Counter, DP = 23.78 CDPS, CC = 21.94 CDPS). The speed part is that it takes 2.3 seconds to get off a single CC, while it takes 2.7 seconds to get off a single DP, which does 10 points less damage.

As others have said, Stone Edge isn't a strong attack, like Overheat or Solar Beam. But it's quick, and it's the best Rock attack out there (CDPS for RT/SE is higher than for RT/Rock Blast). Further, those rock attacks are effective against flyers (legendary birds), many fire mon, as well as ice (but rock is also weak to that), and bug (but there's lots of good bug attackers).

Want to take down Scyther? Stone edge. How about Moltres or Zapdos? Stone edge. Articuno, I use Kabutops with Rock Smash (Fighting) and Stone Edge. (Double rock Omastar works fine for those lucky enough to have one or more of them.) Until they put out a better rock move, Stone Edge is it, just like Earthquake, despite how slow and low power it is, is the best ground move.

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"But rock is also weak to that" ground is weak to ice and Golem (and Rhydon) are also ground type?

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Honestly, in the current meta with gyms and raids, lower energy cost moves are just better. Building up to a Stone Edge and dying before you can pull it off is not ideal. Taking a lower cp gym when you can't even charge a Stone Edge is not ideal. Stone Edge is superior in dps, but the scenarios where a battle, or your pokemon lasts long enough to take advantage of it are nearly non existent.

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by aSp 7 years 4 months ago

True.

This is why it isn't going to take much to knock Golem off it's perch as best rock type.
All that is needed is an actual decent moveset on a mediocre attacker and Golem's place is in the meta is surrendered to something else.

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On the contrary I've never come across people who say stone edge is a good move (as in, single it out in particular). You get people saying FS/OH Flareon does some ridiculous DPS, so does C/Sob Exeggutor, but no one ever says RT/SE Golem does ridiculous DPS. But then, the only 'ridiculous DPS' candidate for ninetales and flareon is Golem, and hydro pump Omastar...so not like a lot of alternatives

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I prefer Rock Blast than Stone Edge... At least during raids, I can throw multiple charged moves for higher DPS/damage and getting more balls to catch the raid boss... Stone Edge, as a 1-bar move is risky in raids and often times, I only managed to hit 1 or 2 SE before my Golem fainted.. So yeah, I will vote for RB instead of SE as my own personal preference..

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