Better legendary bird to power to 30?
Have about 400 rare candies and need to start using some to clear up bag space. I have the three legendary birds so far with good iv's. Which one is a better option to power up with the goal of attacking raids and gyms.
87% IV Lugia, 13 attack, extrasensory/future sight
98% IV Articuno, 15 attack, frost breath/ice beam
93% Moltres, 14 attack, fire spin/fire blast
I will also add that I have several good fire and psychic pokemon but no good ice. This is pretty much going to be a novelty pokemon that can help out in raids from time to time.
Answers
He "noted" that Moltres has better attacks, better would be Ho-Oh having Ember/Fire Blast and Moltres having FS/OH. Ho-Oh doesn't even have a fire or Flying quick attack, then the Charged attacks that get STAB, are terrible (BV has 90 power and FB is a much worse OH), and on top of that he listed Moltres as 4th, when he's easily the second best Legendary bird, far surpasing both Lugia and Articuno.
I already knew about ho-oh's fast attack issues, it's not a secret... It's been talked about at length, so it was a simple task for my brain to read in between the lines as to what he meant. I was able to ascertain he was referring to the fact that ho-oh is unable to learn a proper fast attack, and therefore Moltres gains an advantage as an attacker... I knew this instantly, whereas you needed a back-and-forth of 5 messages until your brain caught up.
:D
The problem is giving bad advice to OP, saying he'd power up all 4, and that moltres would be the 4th choice, when in regards to usefulness, Moltres clearly should be first or second choice, Lugia should be completely out of the question and Articuno is a shaky option as best.
What you understand (or apparently fail to) is of no concern to me or anyone else here.
Where to begin...
I know it is "trendy" now to care about having a 14/15 attack stat (people finally catching on), BUT concerning the vast variety of species sometimes one or both of the other two base stats will play a larger role in netting a better overall performance from the specific species...
There are cases in which the HP rating of an individual, cough...Alakazam...cough, will affect overall cycle damage produced in the most positive fashion, when compared to an individual with a higher attack value. A high Attack IV is important YES, but doesn't tell the whole story.
In the case you presented, Moltres -holding the 5th highest (6th after tonight when Zapdos is released) base attack stat currently available, would be affected more by variants to its HP or Def stats, depending on how drastic those differences are in value. One would need to calculate this in a damage spreadsheet to properly determine which individual will net the most damage per life cycle. The real picture becomes even more convoluted when tanks, who withstand battle TOO long are introduced to the conversation... I won't go on to further details as this is outside the realm of your post.
Now, to answer your question... I would convert some into Articuno candies for now, but save stardust investment for later (e.g. Dragonite Raids, etc.). I'd wait for a better Lugia, considering it's still around. Lastly, your Moltres sounds good enough to start converting some candies for- when to power up will be your decision, I'd TM it too (if you do power up).
If it is really a matter of freeing up bag space, you can convert some (a lot) of your rare candies to individual species candies without needing to immediately power up anything. Are you going to power up any/all of these birds eventually? If so, go ahead and convert some candies, and wait to actually power up until you are ready. Once converted, they no longer take up bag space, and you'll have the Lugia/Articuno/Moltres candies waiting for when you decide you need to use them.
There's really no need to hoard that many rare candies unless you are holding out to spend them all on a mon that hasn't been released yet. Even then, you seem to be accumulating them at a rapid enough rate that you will be able to replenish your supply fairly quickly if needed.
So, first of all, forget about Lugia, it's a Snorlax that you can't put in gyms. I'd also dismiss Articuno until we get some use for him (Dragonite raids, IF and when those happend), also it's not that much better than Cloyster, it will last 2 or 3 seconds more than Cloyster and will deal almost the same ammount of damage, so unless you have a shortage of those Cloyster and Lapras, you won't really need Articuno, again this is assuming we actually get Dragonite Raids.
Moltres is kind of a safe bet, as it's basically a better Flareon, he won't be outclassed on that spot for a while, as Ho-Oh doesn't even have a Fire moveset, and Entei's Attack stat is quite a bit lower, it has a lot more HP, but for most cases you'll rather have the higher damage output.
As for Zapdos, he's gonna be really good, but he'll be outclassed when Raikou is released (TB/WC Raikou is gonna be a force to be reckoned with), Zapdos' attack is a bit higher, but Raikou has far superior moves that will ultimately outclass Zapdos as an attacker.
In terms of usage, disregarding what might come after (see comments on that above), this would be my order:
- Zapdos: Yes unless you plan to not have more candies for some reason, then save them for Raikou
- Moltres: Definitely yes
- Articuno: Only if you don't already have Ice attackers
- Lugia: Keep your rare candy and stardust clear of this one.
DO Keep some for MewTwo, as he's gonna be the best attacker when he's released.
This is dead wrong. Cloyster can never reach the damage Articuno can on its fast attack, meaning it will forever be outclassed as an attacker!!!! Look up the numbers!
Then you compare Moltres to Flareon, when it'll fit in more where Charizard does and tell him to save for Raikou, but make no mention of Entei when he'll be just as game-changing as Raikou!?!?
Sorry, I'm just really puzzled. I don't care who you are, you're dead wrong... I'm laughing so hard right now!!! LMAO
Yeah laugh all you want, but you should probably learn some math first boy, both Cloyster and Articuno have access to Frost Breath, at level 30, both Articuno and Cloyster would deal 11 damage to a tier 4 Dragonite raid boss with each Frost Breath, however, Cloyster has access to Avalanche which would deal 92 damage for 50 energy, while Articuno has to settle for Blizzard that would deal 136 damage for 100 energy.
People should really learn to do math.
Let's take a look at your so called perfect math:
Articuno would last 21 seconds, while Cloyster would last 19.2 aprox, Articuno would deal 345 damage (he doesn't get off his second Blizzard), while Cloyster would deal 441 damage in that time, going throug 3 full avalanche cycles... In case it's not clear 441 >> 345. And even if for some reason Cloyster doesn't get his 3rd avalanche (time is really tigth), he'd still manage 349 damage , still higher than 345.
Oh by the way you might want to take DEF into account, Cloyster takes a lot less damage per hit than Articuno does, so they last almost the same (1.8 seconds less by my calculations).
See, you can't do math.
Concerning my math, I was considering different max levels for this matchup. If you're comparing 2 level 30 specimens then I don't even wanna hear about it dude. I max stuff out, which means that my stuff does ~6-9% more damage than level 30 stuff. With dodging and that extra health I'm gonna get off an extra super. Plus, you only account for Blizz, what about Ice Beam where multiple uses can be used. Lastly, the fact that an Articuno at my level is dishing out 12 damage per fast attack.
Look, bottom line is I was just trying to defend one aspect of the 1st responder's comment on the thread. I feel like what he meant was that Moltres had the advantage moveset-wise against ho-oh (which you and I both knew of already and both agreed with!), but it seemed like you dissed him in that specific aspect, so I was defending him. Now, based on your other comments you were dissing his advice to power up all 4 eventually, which competitively I would agree with you. On the other hand, this game isn't just a competition, so if one of those is one of their faves, then why not train it?
So, I don't think we need to continue arguing--seems like we agree on many accounts. I respect your knowledge and you're right I overlooked the level 30 stipulation of the OP and if we're just talking a max of level 30, then you are correct. If we're talking leveling beyond 30 it's a different case.
You were right based on the OP's stipulations. I'm sorry Kk?
My point was... if you already have good Ice attackers (Cloyster), Articuno is not really worth it, it's not significantly better, specially at level 30. However if OP doesn't have a good Ice rooster, then by all means. As for your other point, yes, if you max articuno he can do more damage than Cloyster. Honestly I usually don't go beyond 30 either because you usually don't get your damage worth of stardust, but that's just my opinion (many people agree, but I know some people do level beyond 30). As for Ice Beam, I believe it has lower cycle DPS, but it might be beneficial in this particular case.
Yes because IB could get off an additional super within the cycle before fainting. You have all valid points and again you were correct given the parameters of max level 30. I was arguing with a max level of 39 in mind which would've been a different story, but I was mistaken given the specifications. I hereby do apologize.
Cheers
To give u an idea on how sometimes movesets matter, especially the case of FS/OH, here's a video on the fire types ( https://youtu.be/LDusWZhgVKo ). Though this was back before the gym rework, it's still somewhat relevant.
The FS/OH charizard, despite having pretty low attack IV with lowest attack base stat and only at lvl 30, pretty much beats both lvl 34.5 arcanines, and the lvl 30 Ember/FB Flareon.
