Old Gym Withdrawal
Even though the old gym system had its flaw, I'm really missing it badly. I battled and prestiged every day in gyms. Taking down a strong level 10 gym solo was such a huge satisfaction and high. The challenge was fun. I miss it so much. Anyone else having withdrawals?
Answers
Yes. Miss training friendly gyms. You should have to earn your way in.
TheY could have added raids and put species limit on gyms without the other drastic changes. Maybe also required taking a level 10 down to 40,000 prestige points to knock out bottom guy, to make it harder for shavers.
Those things would have been enough. That, plus making type advantage stronger than STAB. IMO those changes would have been just right.
I know someone who only keeps Pokemon with full bar charge moves and threw away a DT/OR Gyarados.
I also know a few players who thought Steel Wing was far superior to Dragon Breath for Dragonite before Gen 2, just because SW was 15 power and DB was 6 power.
Worst of all, I've seen someone put CP 43 Snorlax into gyms all the time before Gen 2, just because he read on our local PoGo Facebook page that Snorlax was the best defender, and CP didn't matter for defenders!
(Back then there was no Blissey, no one cared about gym placement here in Singapore because gym turnover was so high)
I rather like the new system. Gym badges are a big incentive for me -and I expect Niantic to foster some form of competition around badges.
It is a fallacy to say that now you have to put weak pokemons in gyms. I am currently living in a mystic-dominated area, so I have to put my Blisseys if I want to earn my daily coins and to progress towards gold badges.
Is it OK to think both systems were broken?
With a few tweaks this system could work. Of course those tweaks were discussed forever here and are well known in many forms. Niantic appears to be rather deaf when it comes to such things though. So I do not know if I truly expect any timely fix to be applied.
I think the current/new system is a lot harder to fix than the old one however...I can't think of anything they can do to fix the current system since there are too many major flaws with it...The instant level 6 gyms, no prestiging, depend on rivals to kick you out to get coins is just way too broken...Also, with only 18 (and 6 being majorly easy), I really don't think gyms will EVER stay up to defend...Gyms stay up because the rival team just doesn't want to attack it and reward people.
A lot of people gripe about stagnant gyms and taking a long time, but I REALLY feel that's the point...You need the gyms to take long or it will never stagnate and defenders won't matter...
Say, in the old system, if 1 run through (10 battles) tore it down, then no gyms would ever stay up...There is a fine balance to have stagnant gyms, but ultimately, what kept gyms up was that it took a lot of time and potions so people ignored them...Yes, it locked a lot of people out...but they should have changed possibly rewards to attack and found ways for lower level players to interact with gyms and reward attacking, but make it too easy and gyms would be stuck at level 3 (like when 500 prestige up was implemented)...
Ultimately, I don't think the old system is coming back, but also lament the lack of prestiging since it got rid of using hundreds of mons we had (Lvl 20 Tangela, I'm looking at all of you).
There is also not as much "diversity" as people harp about.
I honestly think if it took 1 battle to kick out every mon in the current system, I STILL wouldn't attack because I'm that jerk that don't want to reward my rivals in the gym...(since they will kick me back out in < 1 hour)...
I think one of the biggest issues that didn't get addressed is, what can I do at my own team's gym once it is filled up? Now, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do other than feed the pokemon berries. I don't understand why they couldn't add some type of mini game, or a way to practice battling against one of the defenders. Give players a reason to interact with the gyms.
I think there are a couple ways to improve the current system...
- Separate motivation and cp. They can still have the little heart that goes down and gets them booted, but there is no reason a pokemon has to get progressively weaker.
- Give an incentive for staying in gyms and taking them down. Bring back the 20 hour clock and the old reward system and allow you to collect from the individual pokemon from the badge screen. Give a stardust reward for taking gyms down (with a cap.)
- Add more slots. Take it from 6 to 8, so people at least have to do more than pick a single counter for each pokemon.
Just a note: You can actually defend gyms currently...berry them up. I think they could work with the limits on berries and how much they do during battle, but make it so that gyms in high traffic areas can actually be defended with berries. I'll tell ya what, it certainly stops me from attacking a gym when someone starts feeding them berries...
My thinking is that Niantic actually doesn't "want" people to defend gyms honestly...One reason for making it easy and only 18 fights (with 6 ultra easy).
All that said, from the poll and casual responses, I think a LARGER population actually gets more coins in the new system than old...My wife, for example normally gets 10-30 coins under the old system, but assuming she bothers with gyms at all in a day, she will get 30-50 now...
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/6m6zpb/which_gym_system_do_you_prefer/
so yes, it does help people and looking at the survey above on the SR, it seems more people like the current system.
I'd probably be happier if Niantic just gave everyone 50 for logging in and call it day and let the hardcore folks use the old gyms and get their 5k in dust...
Ultimately and I think we all agree, the new system was setup to allow casuals to get Pokecoins more easily (reason for no prestige, instant 6 spots)...I'm sure in your area, it's always the same people tearing down gyms and there are always 4-5 "free-loaders" who plop in all the time for the freecoins.
I'm one of those who tears them down and don't mind the others who get a free spot. I get the battles credited (which I need desperately) and they will hopefully stick around. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but the game needs newer players!
Just hardcore pros who are sitting on a pile of free coins won't pay for Hanke's bonus check ;)
In the days I would knock a big gym down to 1000 points if they had 3000cp Blissey as gym leader and make them prestige it all the way up. Not going to say that was fun, but it was FUNNY. Now I don't think people attack gyms unless they are going to beat all six, it is the berries and the automatic 6 spots. That reality still leaves the gym fighting to the veteran players, but we don't get any stardust or potions for doing it
The "FUNNY" (or d^@% move) thing to do now is berry defense...See someone attack a gym, wait till they knock the Blissey down 2 times, then stick a Golden Razz on it...Repeat 10 times (due to berry limits within 30 minutes or some such) and laugh...
If they were trying to clear the other mons...then use cheaper berries on those as well. The attacker could be there for a while if done strategically...
Not sure for other people, but golden razz tends to be common drops in T3-4 raids so I'd assume those things are taking up a LOT of space now in our Inventory...
A team (5 or 6 people hanging out) put a 2100 Rhydon as gym leader, I knocked it out in 90 seconds. Then I put my Blissey in, I jogged around the park to the 10 other pokestops and returned to golden razz three times. The park was closing at 8:30pm, so they wanted the overnight hours. We lose that gym very infrequently and I want to keep my closest gym/pokestop giving me max rewards
