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How was the data for "Best Raid Boss Counters" derived?

I don't know if mathematical models were used for this.

It seems some obvious choices were omitted. A few examples:

Vaporeon is listed as a "Supreme Counter" for Tyranitar, but it only does 1x SE and has relatively low ATK. In contrast, Ursaring is left out entirely, which with 2xSE fighting moves should do damage much faster.

Venusaur is listed as a "Supreme Counter" for Blastoise, despite the fact that it will be ripped apart if Blastoise has Ice Beam. This makes Jolteon the superior counter. Also, it would seem that if Venusaur is a counter, so should Exeggutor, with a more powerful solar beam backing it up.

Asked by alevinemi8 years ago
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I would like to see some diversity candidates like Ampharos comes to mind. Rhydon is listed either superior or good frequently but I can tell you when I soloed Arcanine he was way to slow and time out vs using my 2 Vapes and Dragonite I finished with 8 seconds left. Guess just based on pure numbers but not necessarily real life examples?

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If it had MS/SE it would have performed better because SE is a stronger and faster charge move. Arc is weak to both rock and ground so a Rhydon with MS/SE would be the top choice. Also, Rhydon has higher ATK base stat than Vaporeon.

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by GS1 8 years ago

Vaporeon is STAB and SE into Tyranitar.
Ursaring is normal type and only has SE with fighting moves into Tyra.
Venusaur and Exeggutor are both weak to Ice, but if Blastoise got bite then Exeggutor will be weak to it being a psychic/grass type.

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Good point about Bite - I forgot Blastoise could have that.

However, a double fighting move Ursaring is still clearly a better attacker than Vaporeon, at least in speed of damage dealt.

Vaporeon SE(1.4) x STAB (1.2) = x1.68 with 205 ATK.
Ursaring SE(1.4) x SE(1.4) = x1.96 with 236 ATK.

Ursaring will do a lot more damage.

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I'm no mathematician but your numbers seem off. How is vap only getting SE once and STAB once and Ursaring get SE twice? Vaporeon got double water moves so based on your logic shouldn't Vape get SE x STAB twice?

If you want a fighting type against Tyra then Machamp is the way to go. SE x STAB twice.

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Because fighting type moves are double SE into Trex...? And you said it yourself in your last sentence?

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I used pokebattler and your'e right ursaring would be faster at 13 seconds versus vaporeons best of 20 seconds (using aqua tail). Now of course it is against a regular tyranitar and not raid but It shows ursaring is better

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It all depends on the boss moveset also, mine had Ff/FB on pokebattler it list Vape #2 obviously if it had wild charge would be different. The list is good conceptual but can be a bit misleading as Rhydon in this example with MS/EQ isn't listed in the top 25

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I'm also curious why a double fight move Pinsir didn't make the list at all. Versus t-tar, it makes sense because of the weakness to rock and fire. But Pinsir has a higher attack stat than Ursaring, so why is not on the list for Snorlax (or maybe even Lapras)? I have a couple of these and they would be easier to power up than Machamp.

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