Cloyster Power Up? Best Move Set!
Cloyster with frost breath and blizzard worth powering up now ?
The IV is 84% HP = 15, ATK = 12, DEF = 11, CP = 1419
Stardust = 2500
I want a dragonite dropper, but I don't know if i should power it up since golem with rock throw and stone edge seems like a better option having higher cp and carrying a great rock moveset!
Answers
I used to think fast quick moves always outperforms in attacking as long as DPS is similar, due to better dodge capability. However, later I found that, as long as the quick move of the defender doesn't hurt that much (in most cases, since u choose the attacker to counter the defender), you shall never bother dodge quick moves, since dodge will cost u 0.5 seconds, and it is not guaranteed to be successful
Ice moves are gonna be 25% more effective then rock moves so Cloyster is better although only with effective dodging. Plus Frost breath is a great attack move rock throw is not.
If you dont think you will never get a Lapras with FB then that may be a very strong option for you. Id consider evolving a level 28-30 Shelldar rather than powering up a high IV lower Cp Cloyster. IV only really matters if you want it too or on attacking mons if you plan to power up to level 40.
If you just want something for Dragonites, the Cloyster is better. The double effectiveness of ice to Dragonite makes Cloyster do slightly more damage than Golem does, despite Golem having a bit more attack.
A Golem with that moveset is still usable for fighting Dragonites with, so it's your choice. You're probably only saving a few seconds each fight using a Cloyster over a Golem.
As for having higher CP, that doesn't really matter because neither is a good gym defender anyway. Cloyster has low HP and Golem's typing makes it awful to grass and water types.
Golem has higher CP because it's attack stat is higher and attack is the highest weighted stat of the 3 when determining CP, and also because it's defence + stamina are more balanced compared to Cloysters, which results in more CP, compared to having one really low stat and one really high stat.
CP = (Attack * Defense^0.5 * Stamina^0.5 * CP_Multiplier^2) / 10
As you can see, attack is not square rooted unlike defence and stamina, so an increase in 100 attack results in a higher number than an increase in 100 defence or stamina.
If you assume attack is equal and so is CPM (level), and you have a Pokemon with 50 def and 350 defence, then it's def^0.5 x sta^0.5 = ~132 while a Pokemon with the same def+sta total (400) but with more balanced stats e.g. 200 def and stamina, their def^0.5 x sta^0.5 = 200, which means their CP is higher. Golem's is actually slightly lower than Cloyster's, but it doesn't matter because they're more balanced.
My list would be...
Lapras
Cloyster
Jinx
Rydon
Slowbro
Blastoise
Gollem
Goldduck
Tentacruel
Dewgong
Im not a 100% sure between jinx and dewgong and all assumptions are based on best moveset available. Definitely Slowbro thru Tentacruel is very similar. Jinx with breath and punch could be great against a DC Dragonite and possibly better than Cloyster. Jinx has a higher attack and a max CP of 2512 vs 2475 for cloyster. Cloyster has way more def tho..
Golem should be higher than Rhydon. Golem's optimal quick move has Rock-typing while both of Rhydon's quick moves are resisted by Dragonite's Flying-typing.
Both should be using Stone Edge and their attack values are more or less the same that the deciding factor is the difference in quick move DPS.
Cloyster is actually #1 if you just want to take down a single Dragonite in the shortest amount of time, because it's attack stat is higher than Lapras', and the optimal movesets are the same.
Although that doesn't take into account DPS loss from dodging, which you need to do with Cloyster unlike a Lapras, but I'm sure most people dodge with all their pokemon anyway.
Dewgong saw a ~11% reduction in attack, ~4% reduction in defence, and an overall ~13% reduction in CP. They're still usable though, you don't really care about the CP value as an attacker and they didn't have high max CP to begin with.
The bonus damage you get from STAB (1.25x) and double effectiveness of Ice against a Dragonite (1.56x) is still almost doubling your damage compared to the damage you'd do against a neutral pokemon. (1.25 x 1.56 = 1.95).
Golem with Rock Throw / Stone Edge should be similar to a Dewgong with Frost Breath / Blizzard. Golem has 211 attack vs Dewgong's 139 (about 52% more), but Frost Breath does ~25% more neutral DPS compared to Rock Throw and Dewgong has a bigger damage multplier (1.25x higher) due to it's Ice typing compared to Rock against Dragonite.
If you've got a Seadra, they can be usable too, as long as they have Dragon Breath as their quick move and not Water Gun.
All of Seadra's charge moves are fine though. Blizzard is double super effective so it's the best. Hydro Pump's STAB is cancelled out by Dragonite's resistance but it still does good neutral DPS and while Dragon Pulse is the worst of the 3 moves, it's not Twister-levels of useless, it's just not as good as the other two.
