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Who here on these boards buy Lottery Tickets (with the money they need for lunch) in real life?

Because this is all I see here, all day every day. Sub-optimal decisions being made in the slim hope that the low level high IV rare evos will turn out favourable.

Well here's news for y'all, not everyone gets B/SE or B/C and even fewer get C/DP. Even if you rolled the moveset you wanted for your level 20 evo you still gotta wait, and for most of you, the wait can be significant. Weeks, if not months!

So why did you evolve that 97% level 20 Larvitar when there was an 77/80% one waiting at level 30?

You brought this upon yourself because when you landed IT/FB or IT/SE with a 2K Tyranitar you've now completely wasted 124 Larvitar candies, whereas even if you landed IT/FB for a level 30 80% you could still place her in some gyms and be viable to collect your few coins. Now, all you can do is look at your shitty 2k mon and be sad.

Maybe it's a good thing that there is no PVP because I reckon there could be a league of hopeless high IV level 20 failed evolution matchups; each of them falling victim to high level, medium IV rares with the right movesets.

It really, really baffles me why players (especially sub-level 35 players) do this. I mean if you're high level and have 30 Dragonites already then yeah, sure, evolve and power up your DTH/DTO 100% from level 1 for all I care because you already have a mini army. You can go for perfection, you can get a real upgrade.

But if you are struggling for Dragons or T-rexes in the first place, it does not make sense to put all your money down on a lottery to win first class tickets to Disneyland, when what you can afford currently is a bus ride there. Chances are - and as so many of you have proved - you lose and the house wins.

Thanks for playing.

Asked by Conquistador7 years 10 months ago

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In general I agree with you, but look at it the other way. I missed out on the Valentine event, I find a Chansey by random luck every 6 months. Yesterday I caught one, 91% iv, level 7. I´ve been walking my best Chansey (42% iv, lvl 9) for 273 km. I´ve hatched approx 30 10k-eggs, not a single Chansey. Last time I got a 10 k-egg from a stop is over a month. I´ve had 9 5k-eggs most of the time the last month.

Do you expect med to send my 91%, low level Chansey to the prof???

(By the way I have low iv Dnite DB/DC and low level Machamp C/DP which will get all the candy they need to reach the optimum level. Attackers don´t need iv)

Bro, I never said transfer your high IV (but low level) mons. I never said that at all.

As I highlighted in my post, there is a use for them when you have your basics covered and you have more dust and candy to know than you know what to do with them. Then, when you are swimming in Blisseys, and you have a good number of Chansey candy, and you are collecting 100 gym coins per day and 5k stardust per day, yeah, power up your 91% and do what you want with it.

But right now by far most people here, and I mean, practically everyone (I have seen very few posts that remotely supports my point of view) goes for evolving the 91% low level guy. You might be the first to 'semi-agree' with me. Guess what, if you are short of candy you can't use it now anyway so that is sure to end in disappointment.
[minor text fixes]

(By the way I have low iv Dnite DB/DC and low level Machamp C/DP which will get all the candy they need to reach the optimum level. Attackers don´t need iv)

You'd be surprised to find out how many are not with you (and me) here. Stay awhile and see.

I'm with you there. My son was with me when we found the Chansey. He got it at 87% iv at lvl 27. An easy pick which one to evolve if you've got both.

Both my Tyranitars came at lvl 25-27, one Larvitar and one Pupitar. Both 87% iv which many consider out of bounds to evolve. I did it, got B/SE first followed by IT/C. Can't say I regret not spending the candy on my lvl 20, 91% Larvitar...

I agree in general too. But there is something else really important that you are not considering. On the long term play IV will always be better than moveset. Soon or later Niantic will introduce a way to change attacks, and the guy that has a 97% Tyranitar sitting at 2k on level 20 will have a much better mon than the level 30 you talk about in a matter of seconds.

Niantic has answered already some tweets about this, and recognized that they know about our concerns regarding getting bad movesets on high IV mon, they will offer a way in the future to change them.

And if you are not swimming on "put mon name here" candy, I always prefer the long term project than the most profitable as today, because having a 3k CP tyranitar on a gym does not even guarantee you can gain that coins and dust everyday, it can maybe do the same job as a pidgey and get cash for one day then repeat the process, who knows, depends on your area, I have seen gyms full of 3k Blissey going down in less than a day.

I leave you a link to Niantic's twitter where they talk about this player concern about movesets:

https://twitter.com/NianticHelp/status/864203753632571392

I agree in general too.

Thanks!

But there is something else really important that you are not considering. On the long term play IV will always be better than moveset. Soon or later Niantic will introduce a way to change attacks, and the guy that has a 97% Tyranitar sitting at 2k on level 20 will have a much better mon than the level 30 you talk about in a matter of seconds.

That is why I keep my level 20 high IV rare mons unevolved. They are ready for future evolution if the game swings that way. If in the future movesets don't matter (because they can be rerolled) I can immediately evolve those and whatever shitty movesets they get at first instance won't matter because well, they can be rerolled. I too can have a level 20 97/100% T-rex at the very instant the game changes the rules.

The difference for me is that if I have evolved a level 30 70-80% IV T-rex, I have a high chance of using it right now as an attacker or defender. The many players who landed IT/C or IT/SE or IT/FB with their 97% level 20s have no such hope and must depend on Niantic to change the rules in their favour - which might or might not happen. All they can do is look at their failed evo and gripe.

Niantic has answered already some tweets about this, and recognized that they know about our concerns regarding getting bad movesets on high IV mon, they will offer a way in the future to change them.

This is a very favourable reading of the situation. IIRC, Niantic's tweet was 'oh we know that you've all landed crap movesets, but the option to change movesets is currently not available'. That's a whole lot different than 'Ya big problem there, no worries, we'll fix it' as you seem to say.

And if you are not swimming on "put mon name here", I always prefer the long term project than the most profitable as today, because having a 3k CP tyranitar on a gym does not even guarantee you can gain that coins and dust everyday, it can maybe do the same job as a pidgey and get cash for one day then repeat the process, who knows, depends on your area, I have seen gyms full of 3k Blissey going down in less than a day.

Yes this is true and dependent on your local scene.

What I am playing for, is 100 coins every day. 5k stardust, for free, every day. Best way for me to get that is (1) have a great roster of attackers to bring down gyms and build my team's tower; and (2) have a great roster of defenders to put into said gyms.

Evolving low level high IV mons is one possible way of getting there, but I would argue that it is a much more inefficient way.

I have seen gyms full of 3k Blissey going down in less than a day.

That would be most likely, me.

I know what you mean. I play for 100 coins too but it took me a long road to get there because I only powered up my mon that are above 90%IV. I have now 12 mon on "stable" gyms and I don't need anything more so I am just saving for the future.

The problem could be that while you save that high IV mon hatched at level 20 to get the Tyranitar, others know that it would take them months and months to get that 124 candies to evolve. This problem has 2 only solutions, be patience, save all Larvitar candies and wait or just evolve it.

But if you save it it probably comes some point when you see the months are passing, and you really want that dex entry, most of us won't ever find a Tyranitar in the wild and that high IV level 20 Larvitar starts looking at you with that sweet eyes each time you scroll to the bottom of your mon storage and each time you open the pokédex you see that sad shadow on the last gen2 mon...I have to admit I have been on the same boat, but my case was different, the Larvitar was 93%IV but I had enough candies and dust to instantly max him out, so I just rolled the dice, got B/C and maxed him. Now he is getting me the coins and dust back.

Each case is different and the guy you talk about from a previous post with a 97%IV one does not even have a Dragonite yet, I try to understand that feeling and the rush to evolve him to get that dex entry and fight with him straight away.

Anyway I really believe Niantic will implement moves changes in the future, either via TM or reroll moves paying money/dust/candies even if they have not said it cleary, it is the correct thing to do, and if they keep shacking movesets with each gen release they will have no other option.

Imagine you just got C/BP Machamp today and gen3 releases in a month or two with a better fighting moveset, and then gen4 the same...A lot of us would be very frustrated of having that high IV mon with bad moveset.

But if you save it it probably comes some point when you see the months are passing, and you really want that dex entry, most of us won't ever find a Tyranitar in the wild and that high IV level 20 Larvitar starts looking at you with that sweet eyes each time you scroll to the bottom of your mon storage and each time you open the pokédex you see that sad shadow on the last gen2 mon

My friend this is about as poetic as I have ever read in these forums, like ever!

What I would say to these guys is, resist the urge. Go for the level 30, at least you can do something with it in the game now because the downside if you get SW/HB or IT/FB on a 97% it can make you want to die.

hahah I like poetry :D.

Anyway, I would probably recommend to not do any of those, the level 30 one because of not being high iv, the level 20 one because not having enough candies to power up.

I think there is a point where you have to start making calculations of a mon, not only think, this mon needs 50 candies to evolve, we all have to consider also the powering up to usable level.

I have a 96% Chansey since a month ago, but I am holding to evolve her, I can be patience because I already have a good team and because I could only take the Blissey to around 2500CP afterwards with the candies left, so why even bother? She would be shaved/killed in a matter of minutes from placement in my area and almost any other place.

Niantic if you are reading, please give us level 30 mon from eggs!! :D

We do it because in the long run it pays. Even as a casual no-pay player I have more high-quality defenders then I can park in gyms. As I write this, both of my high-CP Rhydons, my second Snorlax, and my stronger Blissey are waiting for their next mission. So I have no need at all for another mediocre evolution.

On the other hand, among my main attackers are an Espeon with Zen Headbutt / Future Sight, a Jolteon with Thundershock / Thunderbolt, and a Vaporeon with Hydropump, which have IVs only in the very strong, but not amazing range. I use them because none of my amazing Eevees evolved with these movesets and I had to settle for the second rated ones. They have, and still do, served me well. But at my current level, 35, I would need to pour about 30.000 stardust into each one just to get the extra +100 in CP which they miss due to their suboptimal IVs. this will only get worse and in the end there will be a level of strength they can never reach.

I have evolved 3 level 20 Larvitars. I have encountered 20 Larvitars total: 5 were hatched (at level 20) and 15 were encountered wild. The highest wild CP was level 25, 40% IV, around 550. I absolutely would have evolved a high-level middling IV candidate had I found one, but that's not always possible.

Aye, in your shoes I would have done the same thing. That is because your two options were between level 20 and level 25. The crisis begins when people choose to evolve level 20 vs level 28/29/30.

By the way, the numbers in your post don't seem to add up? 3 evolutions cost 375 candy (or 372 to be accurate). 5 hatches (even at max candy) and 15 catches (even with all Pinaps) don't add up to that much candy.....

I walked a bunch

What do you mean you've never seen this statement on here before? I've made this recommendation many times based on the info provided.

Damn you're right JH, I remember your post now. It was in my attacking lineup thread, IIRC. I stand corrected and have edited, oops, made [minor text fixes].

Ha all good man. I like your statement and it's why I so often reply to power up questions with questions getting at the trainer's needs and situation first.

Never seen a high level Larvitar (yet).
highest level was ~25 with -50%iv

anyway on the long term high iVs matter more than high starting level

I did exactly what you are suggesting a while ago with Dragonite, I went for a 67% IV Dratini at level 28 and got lucky on the moveset (DT/OR) but I still regret not waiting for a better one. It proved to not be that usefull due to it having few really favorable matchups and its raw strength is hampered by its IV, especially as a defender. My best hatched Dratini was around 84% IV so it was probably the right choice if I really wanted to evolve one right now.

But a while after I hatched a 96% Dratini so now I am walking it to get my second Dragonite...

No dude, trust me you made exactly the right choice.

You see, you've got a top tier attacker which you can use NOW.

The candies you saved not needing to power up your level 20 - they roll into your next evolution. You are in fact approx. 50-60 candies ahead of the position you would be in had you evolved your 84% level 20.

And lastly, you see, you will always be hatching high IV level 20s. After a while you'll find that 91% doesn't even quite cut it for a level 20. For a level 20 hatched Dratini to make a compelling case not to be transferred -- yeah you're looking at 95%+.

It proved to not be that usefull due to it having few really favorable matchups

Not sure what you're on to here, mate but I think many would disagree with you on this.

You may wanna read https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/when-swap-out

its raw strength is hampered by its IV, especially as a defender

Not sure about this either... if you've fought Dragonites frequently, none of them (whether 2.9k, 3.3k or absolutely top tier 3.5k ones) are great at defending. They all fall, and pretty fast too. Lapras, Jynxes, Cloysters, Piloswines, and fellow Dragons, all munch them up too fast. Dragonites are only there for the CP and because they're (hopefully) protected by multiple Blisseys below.

Being your first Dragon you might have had higher expectations of its performance.... but take it from me, it's not a CP or IV issue.

You're well on your way to your next Dragon, though, so thumbs up for that. The guy who made the other choice than you, evolving the 84, is still walking for candies to bring it up to level 30, but you are on your way to a second Dragon... think about that. For your next Dragon, in fact, it won't really matter what moveset you land, because if you've already got your first DTO, you can have SW/H or SW/O of a high IV for defending.

You've won, all the way.

What makes Dragonite great is the massive CP/Attack it brings (Raw strength). Mine does not have that massive raw strength due to the low IV. Those comparisions does not compare Pokemons with the same CP so Dragonite/Tyranitar does great.

Sure, it is definitely a good attacker but not that great compared to Gyarados with same CP and Vaporeons/Exeggcutor with slightly lower that it is way easier to find favorable matchups for (Rhydons and Vaporeons for example).

And as we all know the defender meta-game is all about placement. And my Dragonite usually gets stuck around the Gyarados level (3000CP) if I use that way.

Also I never really considered evolving my 84% IV, as I said I made the right choice if I HAD to evolve one at that point. But I could also have waited.

I think it's mentioned a lot actually to evolve AND power up in 1 go...Meaning once you can evolve and power up a level 20 97% to be gym usable, you get instant benefits...I got my 1st D-nite (lvl 20) with 97% IVs with SW/HB and stuck it in a gym...been earning coins every single day I've had it. At the higher levels also, powerups are insanely expensive so if you had a lvl 30 50% IV vs. a 100%, you could be off by 200 CP so in some gyms, that 50% lack of IVs will NEVER make that mon useful in some gyms...

I'm the worst IV snob because if you are patient and play the long game, saving for enough to do both will give you an immediate benefit...esp for defenders where CP is king.

Also, if gyms are pushing 3000+ to get a stable spot, you can't afford to waste it on poorer IV mons so look at it as 10 coins/500 dust is not worth the 200+ candies to evolve and power up a substandard IV mon...This is fine if you have more candies than defenders, but once you get to a certain point, it matters less.

As mentioned, I think a lot of people agree that movesets will eventually can be changed in the future and even if not, it doesn't matter as a gym defender that you got a SW/HB vs. a DT/O one. You still make the same 10 coins/500 dust...

I maxed out a level 2 Chansey/Blissey now and it's pretty much always in a gym as well now and having that better IV is WELL worth it to have a much much higher spot than a level 30 40% ZH/DG Blissey which will be shaved off...You can walk/hatch to get more candies, but there isn't crap you can do to increase the IVs to get a higher gym spot...(this may change of course)...

I'm probably one of these sub level 35 noobs you're talking about, and I just evolved my first Tyranitar and my 3rd Dragonite in the past 2 days. Aware of my non-expert status, I came here for advice.

In the case of my Tyranitar, it wasn't much of a decision. They don't spawn here, I had three level 20 larvitar to choose from, with minor differences in IV's. I was primarily concerned about moveset, and ended up getting B/CR, which I'm happy with.

With my 3rd Dragonite it wasn't so clear cut. I had two hatched (lvl 20) dratini with higher IV's than either of my Dragonites (38 and 76% - both > 3000 with great movesets, DB/DC and DT/H). I also had a lvl 28 and a lvl 29 dratini that had mediocre IV's. So what to do?

I considered the good advice I got, including yours, before going with the lvl 20 with the highest IV's (lucked out with the moveset, DT/H). Why? I can only collect from 10 gyms/day and have enough high CP, high quality defenders, despite my low level (34). I use my Dragons primarily as attackers, and they are awesome. And finally, dratini spawn here (I just hatched another one and powered up my new Dragonite). So I don't mind investing the dust and candy.

IRL I would never play the lottery, the odds against winning are astronomical. But RNG is a risk worth taking.

I'm the same level as you so take my comments with a grain of salt!
It seems you're actually making the OP's point - since you really were looking for D'nite attacker, the IV's shouldn't matter as much as level - you choose a higher IV level 20 and got great moves, but now you'll have to spend 30-66 candy to get it to level 25ish-30 where it will be competitive for attacking. At it's current level I believe you're speculating that it will be a great prestiger against Blissey. I certainly agree with that, but what a limited role for the prime attacker in the game.
Meanwhile, had you picked the medium IV but Level 28 or 29 to evolve, your DT/H would be immediately useful as an elite attacker, and if it got crap moves would still have had high enough CP as is to get a gym slot, which would not have been an option for your level 20 dratini.
Your earlier post did say you had use for a defender, which is possibly why some advised you to pick the higher IV level 20 - with the idea that you can eventually gather enough candy for that purpose.
It's good that dratini spawn in wild for you so not that big a deal to power up, but OP would likely argue you could be accumulating that candy for your 4th d'nite (DT/O??) rather then having to power up.
OTOH, I've been (very) slowly bringing up a 91% L/BS snorlax, wild caught at level 4 - always good to have projects to keep one motivated in this game!

I wish I could get a L/BS snorlax (too late, I know), they are awesome defenders as I found out recently while prestiging. I would do the same, great investment!

Thanks for your comments. I guess I might have been overreacting, feeling a bit insulted by OP, but I got over it. The funniest thing happened earlier.

I went to a county beach where you can get the wildest spawns in addition to water/ocean types (e.g, swinub or voltorb, which otherwise don't spawn here). The first mon I encountered was a lvl 30, CP 676, 69% (10A/15D/6ST) dratini! Would I evolve her as my 4th Dragonite, when the time comes? Absolutely!

I used some incense and was shocked to get my first wild pupitar! (They also never spawn here). 790, lvl 18, 76%, 12/10/12. Level 18, but I would likely evolve as my second Tyranitar. One plus: My only female, and I like to have at least one of each gender.

Sometimes the highest IV's may be best, sometimes the highest level/CP. And in the end we're always at the mercy of RNG when it comes to movesets.

But I always value and appreciate everyone's advice and opinion, even if critical.

Happy hunting and good luck to everyone!