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Bite / Crunch vs Bite / Stone Edge

Why has gamepress changed the rating and switched B/C on first place? I have a 3395 cp B/C Tyranittar , but always thought that it was second best to stone edge. Any opinions ?

Asked by Tiger637 years 7 months ago

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I think there is a general preference for mono-type movesets on attack, since you'll more likely to exploit some type of type advantage. To the best of my knowledge, there is not a mainstream defender in the game that is weak to both dark and rock. However, there exists some defenders that you can use a double dark much better (e.g. Exeggutor, espeon)

But in this meta I think B/SE is more useful. Hits gyarados, dragonite effectively. Rather have that than exeggutor or espeon.

Then again, whenever the legendaries come out, the cats in particular, then the B/C godzilla is by far the best counter to them, unless the cats have counter and focus blast then game over for godzilla

I would disagree as it depends on the matchup. T. rex resists psychic fire and flying. Lot of the legenderies are flying so rock would destroy them. I also think stone edge is better than crunch. I like Crunch being a three bar move but it's animation is slow. If they change crunches animation time obv it would be a diff story.

I'm talking the legendary cats (mewtwo mew, whatever you call them, i call them cats lol), in which I think a double dark tyranitar will be by far the best counter

The legendary birds are handled better by stone edge for sure but I'm not sure if tyranitar is better or golem is better (as golem has double rock moves but obviously worse stats)

This is true for gen 1 and gen 2. All current and future generations, however, have psychic type legendaries, giving Bite + Crunch the upper hand, if assessing legendaries in general.

I agree with your reasoning but don't both golem and rhydon have stone edge too ? Why would I want a Tyranittar with stone edge when both Golem and Rhydon can get the same move and the job done ?

Fair point there. T. rex has better base stats however and he resists psychic. I'm not sure if golem and Rhydons base stats are good enough to take down certain legendereis. They however might be. Lugia is one that comes to mind. Obviously there both excellent movesets and u can use crunch more often. Just not as crazy about the move. I also do not notice a change in ratings. They both are an A.

Totally agree lol against mewtwo the b/c is a better option. I do think b/se would do just fine as well though. Either moveset will be extremely valuable against any legendary. He's made to destroy legenderies.

Which moveset would you prefer against a blissey?

I use Bite /Crunch against Blissey, I wait until the defender makes the charge move and i launch two straight crunches, if it has psychic or dazziling gleam, if it has hyper beam i drop the whole package after the nurse has done its thing .

Yes they are both A, but Bite Stone Edge used to be the first one on the Attacking List, now it's B/C.

Tyranitar (with stone edge) is like a 8/10 against Gyarados and 10/10 against Snorlax/Blissey whereas Golem (with stone edge) is like a 9/10 against Gyarados and a 7/10 Against Blissey. Bite stone edge does give great coverage overall but doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any better options.

As for Stone edge on rhydon...is basically useless on offense because you can't use it with either one of the quick moves, them being ground and fighting)

Ok so I did very quik math to get the Average Damage Per Use for both of these moves for Tyranitar

1.Stone Edge ~ 157 dpu

2.Crunch ~110 dpu (x3)

So for 100 energy you get 157 with SE or 330 with Crunch. Also I will just throw in Fire Blast for fun

Fire Blast ~ 176 dpu

So according to your calculations , crunch with three bars does more damage than Stone Edge ?

So basically crunch is the better move ur saying.

I think that if you like to dodge a lot stone edge wins the game, but if you are after more damage and dodging just at the right time(for example against blissey), crunch is a better choice.

Oh yes without a doubt if you love to dodge definitely SE is better but in the long run CR will end up doing more damage because taking away every thing besides base power it is SE 100 and CR 70 x3 or 210.

Yes and the math is just dps times CD and on this site which is awesome because they already factored in Stab and base attack.

My Tyranittar is 94 Iv, I got it mostly from egg hatching and km bike riding. In a month and 20 days since the release of Gen 2 i got the first Tyranittar in my town. In two months and a half i got it to 3335 cp when i was still 33 . Got lucky with the hatches. From the rock event I managed to get circa 300 candies. I evolved another one but it got iron tail/stone edge. And yeah I've been using a bought map since two months, so it was easy to get him in the rock event. I'm waiting until the gym rework, maybe the Iron Tail Stone Edge Tyranittar will be useful in prospect.

Actually because of crunches insanely long CD it is really easy to dodge so 99% of the time IT/SE is better... but a machamp can beat a Tyranitar before he can get a SE off, if I am correct.

That's why I'm waiting to power him up. This one is 89 iv though. But still reaches 3.6k cp

So ur saying u can use crunch three times before using stone edge twice ?

Yes because each Crunch needs only 33 energy where Stone Edge takes 100 so that means once you gain 100 energy you will have 3 crunch or 1 Stone edge making it possible to use several crunches for everyone SE but the CD on crunch does make it have a much lower dps but it has a higher overall damage so Crunch is better for blissey without DG but if you really are into dodging sometimes you can get a stone edga in between a defenders attack.

You can get 5 Crunch in before getting to use Stone Edge a second time.

Did you add in the bites you would get in between the difference in cooldown? SE is 2.3 secs vs 3.2 secs for crunch. So you could almost fit in 2 bites at 1/2 second each after the SE released.

Crunch is really slow for a 3 bar move. I'm not evolving a tyranitar until they reduce the cool down of crunch or add better dark moves to tyranitar. With every use of crunch you're getting hit 1 or 2 times depending on the defender's quick move and at worst you get hit by a charge move. At least with stone edge you can still dodge the next attack.

Yeah with crunch the only move you can use it between on defence is Volt Switch which the only good defender with that move is Ampharos. But yeah I agree the CD needs to be lowered, Atleast by .5 or even a whole second.

Yea I know the energy use is only 33. However the cool down is significantly longer On crunch. I wud have to check to see that. It might be close.

I disagree...make the best use of your trex and just don't bother dodging quick moves...its a tank and should be able to handle quite some abuse.

The only real quick moves that I advise to dodge are probably only confusion and volt switch since they are 20 power. Then again, tyranitar resists the first one so it's not the end of the world.

I have a BC Tyr. I personally would not give it an A rating for attack. I treated it as a generalist.
Fighting snorlax seems good. It got hit by DG quite often when fighting blissey. I also tried fighting Gyr and got KO by a pump when it is cooling down from crunch.
3.3 seconds is just too long.

Yeah with Crunch Idealy you want to be fighting a Non Dazziling Gleam Blissey. Also staying away from BS and HS is recomended for snorlax but it still works.

Yes, hopefully when we get another moveset rebalance they lower the cooldown of crunch. One can also hope they eliminate the possibility of getting fireblast as a charge move.

GamePress has not "switched" B/C to show it's better than B/SE. They are both tied for first place as attacking movesets regardless of which one is listed first, as they are both rated "A." One is not considered to be better than the other by GamePress. See the Moveset Grades Explanation at https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/moveset-grades-explanation which clearly explains this.

A better way to look at it is assuming full bar energy on 2 trex's with MS's discussed is what would occur in the time after a SE is released + SE vs 3 crunches. Lets look at the hard numbers.

3 consecutive Crunch's
3.2 secs * 3 crunch + Damage taken from opponent

SE plus moves in remaining of 9.6 secs
2.3 secs (SE) +.5 secs/bite *13 Bites (plus 52 energy gained by 13 bites, 8 EPS) +.8 secs remaining (allocated as dodging time, i reduced bites to 13 instead of 14 to expand dodge time to .8 not sure how many dodges that is, Im guessing 2-3. 14 bites and one dodge(.3 secs) is the alternative option) + health gain from damage dodged + resulting damage given to opponent from that additional health gained.

equals

9.6 secs total.

Total damage per bar can be misleading as true damage given and taken differ. Clearly 100 vs 210 isnt an accurate comparison. Another factor is energy gained by opponent, my guess is the opponent gains more energy by being hit by 3 crunches but Im not sure.

That's the best and most up to date appropriate post in ages and ages of history, and needs articles (blue333 I'm looking at you) and analysis (GamePress, PokeBattler and ShilpRoad reaserchers I'm looking at you) in support.

Is there a future possible quick "Rock" move T-rex can learn?

B/SE is far better for players who dodge. C is 3.2 second 3-bar. You use it often, and take a defender hit each time you use it, sometimes with a charge move. In contrast SE is a 2.3 second 1-bar. You don't use it often, and it's quite fast when you do use it, so it has little interference with dodging.

I have both and have used both against common defenders. B/SE Tyranitar is by far my first choice Tyranitar moveset against Blissey, as well all other defenders that are not weak to dark. However, when fighting the few defenders that are weak to dark, I'd generally favor Crunch.

As a more objective rating, the Pokebatller simulation based overall attacker ratings are below for dogde all with realistic dodging pro.

B/SE Tyranitar -- Gets through 4.5 Defenders
DB/DC Dragonite -- Gets through 4.2 Defenders
DT/H Draoginte -- Gets through 4.0 Defenders
DT/O Dragonite -- Gets through 3.8 Defenders
DB/DP Dragointe -- Gets through 3.8 Defenders
B/C Tyranitar -- Gets through 3.7 Defenders
...
B/FB Tyranitar -- Gets through 3.5 Defenders

B/C is still near/on legendary attacker level and will do quite well in battle, but it falls well short of B/SE. The ranking is closer for dodging only specials with DT/O Dragonite doing best, but B/SE still is well ahead of B/C for all dodge strategies.