GamePress

"Damage per energy used" for charge moves

Why there isn't a value called "Damage per energy used" for charge moves evaluation in every single Pokemon GO forum? Sometimes this information is as important as DPS I think.
Do you think this is necessary to state out ?

Asked by comeasuare7 years 10 months ago

Report

Answers

Because it's trivial to figure out in your head.

All one-bar charge moves use the same amount of energy.

Two-bar charge moves use half that energy.

Three-bar charge moves use one-third that energy.

So, to get a comparison of "Damage per energy used", just multiply the damage number by the number of bars. Bang. Comparison done.

Psychic - 100 dmg x 1 bar = 100, kinda sucks
X Scissor - 45 dmg x 3 bars = 135, not so great
Solar beam - 180 dmg x 1 bar = 180, frickin' awesome
Outrage - 110 dmg x 2 bars = 220, BOOYEAH!

You can't simply do that. That is a decent 'general rule' but there are way too many exceptions for this to be a good general rule. Especially the 3 bars. For example, icy wind (60 power) x3 definitely does not equal a frickin awesome 180 solar beam.

Maybe you can compare the 1 bar and 2 bars this way.

BTW X Scissor is easily one of the best 3 bar moves. The lower damage 3 bars are great, esp dragon claw, aqua tail, body slam etc.

Understood.
But would it at least be more clear / convenience for us to check / sort the move sets if "DPE" stated out as many ppl still think DPS means everything for a charge move ?

I stand by X-Scissor sucking from a damage standpoint. It doesn't hit hard.

That said, it is fast. This makes it good defensively, especially in a 3-bar charge move that can't be predicted when it will come.

But on offense? Not really. My 100%IV Scizor with X-Scissor will be consistently reamed when trying to prestige against an Espeon with Psybeam. Psybeam is just too awesome in comparison to X-Scissor, even with the hard counter typing benefit. (Admittedly, I am trying to get prestige, so much lower CP)

You are right, X scissor sucks from a damage perspective but I think the biggest perks of a 3 bar move is speed (hence why I said I'd prefer XC/Dragon Claw/Aqua tail).

I think 1 bar and 2 bars can be compared like outrage vs solar beam etc. However 3 bars are trickier to analyse properly with your method.

No, you can do exactly that

BUT you also have to add up in your head how much cast time you waste and what you could do with that.

3 Icy Winds do same Damage as 1 Solar Beam but the problem is Icy Wind is 3.3 Seconds and Solar Beam is 2.9.

A better way to think of it though is that since using 2 2 Bars, or 3 3 Bars generally takes more time even than 1 Long 1 Bar (SB/HB). Ties go to the 1 Bar.

Depending on the Cast Times of the move a 2 Bar might need to do 10-20% more Damage than than 1 Bar to be worth it. IE Outrage.

While 3 Icy Wind is the same damage as 1 SB, because of casting times you would need 3 Icy Winds to do 50%ish more than 1 SB to consider them

The obvious best example is Thunder vs Thunderbolt.

I agree. To compare DPE, you just add up the total damage across all the bars because the total energy across the bars is always 100.

I think a more useful metric would be to model out the total damage of just spamming quick and charge attacks over a long period (like 100 min) and then divide it by 100 to get "cycle damage per minute". I wouldn't do the model over just 1 min because it would get skewed too easily by whether get your charge attack off.

Who says that there isn't? You just didn't read through all the posts.
We discussed the viability of DPE a long time ago. In summary, it makes the most sense for defensive charge move evaluation. But as a separate metric, it is hard to interpret the meaning.

So someones supposed to scroll through 9 months of posts? How long ago so they can have an idea of how much of their day they should scroll before looking

Rough Rule of Thumb:

Step 1) Compare Cast Times first.
3 Dragon Claws take 5.1 Seconds
2 Outrages take 7.8 Seconds
Modify the Damage of whichever is "Quicker" by a little knowing that you will get in some Quick moves and gain some energy. In this comparison, with DB i'd make DC a "60" instead of it's normal 50.

3 DC = 180
2 Outrage = 220

Conclusion Outrage Wins in damage.
(if both have stab, you don't need to calculate stab, but if only one does, you need to 1.25 that one)

3) Decide which move is easier to dodge with for your style. DB/DC > DT/Outrage

4) Decide if the Damage Winning Move wins by enough to make it worth using vs the Dodging Move

This is just a ball park way of doing it. You really need to do exact Damage Per Cycle.

Extra Credit: You can also factor in whether the pokemon you are fighting will die before the 1 Bar Recharges and/or whether you would use the extra energy the 1 bar has left on next defender

Here's Body Slam vs Hyperbeam on Snorlax for example.

3 Body Slams = 5.7 Seconds
1 Hyper Beam = 3.8
Here Snorlax doesn't get a ton in those 1.9 Seconds I'd ball park Hyperbeam as a 155-160.

3 Body Slams = 150
1 HB = 155-160

HB wins, but BS is easier to dodge with.

BS dodge win to me > HB damage win