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Why do they cheat?

Some of you have apparently lurked on cheater (spoofer) boards or have friends who cheat. So maybe you can answer this: Why cheat? What is the point?

If I wanted to, I could buy a high level account for cheap or spoof. But what is the point? These ill gotten spoils would be meaningless to me. (But I lack the criminal mind, so I guess I can't understand).

If you like pokemon, why not play another game like Sun/Moon that is designed to be played on your couch? Or are they just trolls who like to mess with people?

Just curious, any insight appreciated.

Asked by DeLana_998 years 1 month ago

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Answers

It is a bit of all, never met a cheater in person but have seen some in forums and FB groups, they cheat because

A) They are too lazy to walk

B) They think they are smarter and better than the rest, so their success is to get everything with less effort than the legal players and then show it to the world, like small kids when they say look dad i can go to the bathroom alone...

C) Some of them think that because they can't go out to play or their town has not a lot of stops, gyms and spawns they are in their "right" to cheat to get the same as big city players (of course end up getting a lot more than anyone)

D) They have no other thing to do, they have no smartphone or their phone can't play the game so they think I will play from my couch and laugh at the players that are on the street walking, the game was pretty famous at launch and people with a lot of spare time probably gave it a try and then start cheating when they got bored because they have to actually move and walk to get things done.

E) Because they can cheat, Niantic let's them do it so why not take advantage of it? "I have seen those exactly words on a FB group when a cheater was asked for it, he had more than 70 gyms all over the city and the nearby towns..."

Those are the main reasons that come to my mind right now, but there are many others and similiar ones.

So sad... I guess they also lack self respect and integrity.

I am not sure that 'criminal' is the right way to look at it...there is nothing 'criminal' about cheating a video game. They might think it makes them badass, but seriously, it is just some pixels.

It is just lazy, and some people think that cheating somehow makes them better than a person who plays legit.

Just a slight exaggeration to make a point ;)

I think it was just a way to state they are making something illegal that attemps to us as legal players ;)

At least it is what I understood, he/she was just trying to make a point. Anyway, cheaters are directly destroying the game for the rest, so I have zero respect to them. I have seen people on wheel chair playing, people with leg injuries slowly walking with help or sitting on a bench to put a lure and play, if they can do it everyone else can, cheaters have no excuses for killing the game for the rest.

I did recognise that...but I was using it to make a point about the way players that cheat actually think it makes them cool, or some kind of badass - and comparing them to actual badasses.
If they ran into an actual badass, they would wet themselves, and the badass would laugh at them - dang, they can't even go out in public to play a video game.

there is nothing 'criminal' about cheating a video game

This depends on the game. In Pokemon Go it actually is; They violate Niantic's Terms Of Service, sabotage the servers by putting high load on them with their bots, and putting their mons in gyms is fraud because the Pokecoins have an actual value (Many players buy them for real money)

No...it isn't criminal.
Niantics ToS is not law, and even if it was it wouldn't be law in all jurisdictions in every country the game is played.
...and putting a mon in a gym is far from 'fraud'.
These are legal terms - and yes can be used as an anaolgy, or in a metaphor - but in no way can anyone actually claim them to be genuinely legally binding.

As I said before, I recognise that the post I responded to was using it as an analogy, and my response was intended to do the same, and extend that.

...but no, it is not 'criminal'

So much facepalm

Now, creating a bot army, that is using real world resources may be enough to create a true legal case in certain jurisidctions in some parts of the world, but even that would need to be tested in court. This is only true, because the bot army is using real world resources and costing real money, and has nothing to do with the ToS.
A ToS is nothing more than 'in game rules' you agree to abide by - they are not legally binding - so breaking the ToS is not 'criminal'

Ummm, in many jurisdictions like the USA and here in Germany even connecting to a computer (like Niantic's server) for something other than it is intended for is a criminal offence, it doesn't even need Niantic's TOS.

Yes...that is what I said, thanks for agreeing with that part of what I said.
Connecting to a server in a malicious way, and using real world resources can indeed create a legal case in a great many countries around the world...I did say that.

But breaking the ToS does not make someone a criminal - and this was your claim.

You are now trying to change what you said once I have pointed out your mistake....but again - thanks for agreeing with part of what I said.

Yes, violating the TOS is just a breach of contract, not a criminal offence. But other stuff like sniping gyms is, that can be fraud or theft. (Imagine you're in a game show where you can win a 1,000 $ iTunes Gift Card. You solve the puzzle or whatever is requested, the game show host puts the gift card on the table for you, but before you can take it somebody else grabs it and runs. That's exactly what a gym sniper does, just on another scale with Pokecoins worth 10 cents)

If it was a physical item with real world value like a $1000 iTunes card, that can be redeemed for goods, then yes that is fraud...but it isn't an iTunes card.
If they were buying in game currency with a stolen credit card, then yes that is fraud.

...but my point was that breaking the ToS is not a criminal offence.
You claimed it was...and then later admitted it was not a criminal offence.

What is the point of the rest of this?
Are you just trying to have a go at me for the sake of it?
Just quit while you are behind.

Pokecoins can be redeemed for goods too, an incubator is a virtual good just like an iTunes song or movie. There are people who buy them for real money, so they have an actual value which can be expressed in Dollars and Cents. Stealing them is theft, there's a notable difference between cheating in a single-player game and cheating in a multiplayer game where players compete for an in-game currency which has an actual monetary value.

Wow! You never give up, even after admitting you were wrong. This would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous.
You have already conceeded my original point anyway....so what are you doing now?

As for dowloading music, this has already been tested in courts with Kazaa and Napster, and even against people that used these services - the cases were based on the copyright attached to individual songs, as these are deemed individual commodities.. By all means, show me a precedent for cheating to get in game currency being prosecuted.
I can show you precedent of those selling in game currency being prosecuted, and precedent for those that write botting software to earn in game currency being prosecuted (see Wow and Runescape for example) - but there is no precedent for those attaining in game currency, using in game methods being prosecuted.

You have changed the topic, in an attempt to save face...and still failed.
In case you haven't noticed, I am not condoning cheating - I have in fact spoken out against it in this very thread, and many others.
...but my point stands, breaking the ToS is not 'criminal', and no one can be charged with a 'criminal offence' for putting a spoofed mon in a gym to collect pokecoins....but hey, you have already said this.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make...or have you lost track of that completely?
Your agenda appears to just try to have a go at me, rather than make a salient point.

Pokecoins are not like WoW gold, they're a limited resource and by taking them they take something away from others.

No they aren't...there is no limit to the number of people who can collect from a gym in a single day.
If a fake account claims pokecoins from a gym, it does not prevent someone else from claimimg from that gym too. The only limit that exists, is the number each individual account can gain in a 24 hour period.

Many many people claim coins from any given gym in a single day. A legit player is still able to earn coins after a cheat has claimed coins from that gym.

I repeat...what exactly is your point you are trying to make?

I get a GPS drift in bed. Sometimes I hatch eggs and generate candy without actually playing the game. I do this when cleaning up my storage and checking IVs of the days catch. This makes me a little bit of a cheater but I see no problem with it. I don't teleport or even track though. I do think there's something fundamentally wrong about that. Funny how that works...

That's not cheating, you're just lucky ;)

GPS drift is a flaw in the game...this is nothing you are intentionally doing. It is the same for everyone so there is no unfair advantage.

And because they feel the need to defend their home.
Imagine that the whole city's gyms are occupied by foreign spoofers. And local players have no chance to win unless they spoof (and bot) themselves. Will you choose to surrender or "stand up" and fight?
To my knowledge, this is what is going on in the northern parts of China (where there are gyms, PokeStops and spawns). A group of team instinct spoofers with a mix international background, along with their bot army, are sweeping gyms and making every gym yellow with 10 Blisseys (with the help of botting bubblestrat). One friend of mine has decided to fight back. I don't think it is justifiable to cheat, but clearly, what choices do Niantic leave for them?
As the incentives for those invaders, well, I can add that they need the virtual achievement of occupying a real city.

That's somewhat unusual, since the game is not even supposed to be played in China.

But again, what's the point? For 10 coins and some dust? Just be mean and ruin it for legit players? I don't get it....

yes what the point of coins? why you angry of it if it have no point of getting gyms lol

Ask those instinct players...they want to conquer the world, if I have to guess

"they started it" is not a justifiable reason as far as I am concerned (but you did say that yourself)

Becoming part of the problem is never a solution.

Yes. I witnessed the transformation of that friend of mine. I cannot force him to quick spoofing (and I don't intend to), I can only wish that Niantic do something to stop all spoofing.
I consider myself a "researching" player. I study how to optimize attacking a gym and share my findings with all (and him). I seldom put myself in a fight like that. I don't want to involve in physical fights (according to my friend, it is likely to happen in that city after they found a "mole").

why not cheat? its just a game dont cry about it niantic dont force you to play this game you know. if you want to quit then quit. taking advantage of this game is must thing to do if it hackable then risk it. its just a game. they just want to take advantage of it while they still can becos sooner or later this game will be unhackable and no more cheats atleast they have want. if you play legit its fine yes thyre missing the fun of it by cheating but in the other side theyre more happy doing it taking advantage of it while they still can.

Maybe you can tell us what you get out of cheating the game...instead of just 'why not'

As for answering 'why not?'...it is disrespectful to the makers of the game and all those that choose to play legit.

Yes, what's the point? How can you enjoy your unearned spoils, and why don't you play/cheat a game designed for couch potatoes instead?

Here you go, another s...d cheater thinking he is better than the rest because he cheats a game that is easy to exploit. You need zero knowledge or skill to cheat PoGo, there are plenty of tutorials around that even a 3 years old kid could follow, I bet you are as useless in real life person as you are in the game. Enjoy your cheated game, at home, alone, with no friends and no one that cares about you, not even yourself, while the rest of us go out, walk, enjoy, have fun, meet people, discover new places and even the most lucky ones travel around the world :D

I think you give him too much credit. He doesn't hack anything...he just downloads and uses someone elses work.
These are nothing more than script kiddies...and to call them hackers is disrespectful to all genuine skilled hackers.

They are just cheats.

Yeah, you are totally right, I will fix the post, I am not too familiar with that terms that why I used the word "hacker".

Anyway those people makes me wonder the kind of world we are creating for the incoming generations, if people can't be honest and respectful with a game that is something fun and casual, if people just keeps attacking others in order to feel better with their lifes I don't know how we gonna be better with actually important things. Those people need to learn that their freedom ends where the freedom of the person next to them starts.

It is alright...I am just being pedantic I guess.
I knew what you meant.
I am just a believer that hackers have skills...but a cheat doesn't need any.

As for the rest of what you said...100% agree.
If they are prepared to cheat for the sake of a few pixels...it does make you wonder about their integrity as a person.

I believe there are 2 different types of cheaters. The first type is what I would call malicious, these are the ones that most of the people are complaining about, and the ones you are asking about. These are the people that drastically affect the game play of others and/or try to make other people miserable. This would be spoofers, botters, and those that have a second account they abuse by shaving gyms. I would actually consider gym sniping in this category. I can't really speak as to why someone would act like this. I just think of them as internet trolls, people that have such despicable lives that they have to troll people to feel good about themselves.

The second type I guess we can call the non-malicious. I think this can actually be broken down into 2 categories, major, and casual. This is everything ranging from bots and scanners, to second account, to using different websites to track pokemon and gyms. The big difference here is the intent and the affect on the game play. Let me give a few examples...

I met someone that would be on the major end of this, but he actually creates a healthy environment for players and helps players connect. There was a spoofer that was ruining the entire area (the spoofer was on my team.) This spoofer was so bad that people were quiting, or resorted to spoofing themselves. In response to this, he created a bot army to follow this spoofer around and immediately take down any of his gyms. The result? The guy quit spoofing and our area has very healthy game play and competition.

This same person also set up a scan bot that posts on Twitter. This is one of those things that if you follow it, it is technically cheating, but I don't believe it makes a big difference in the end. First of all, players from all teams use it, and it is a great way to meet people. Second, if it is not combined with spoofing, you still have to physically go there to get the pokemon.

I guess this kind of leads into the casual cheater. This is the kind of thing that makes up for things the game is lacking, such as a way to tell which gyms your pokemon are in, and a real tracker.

The reality is that 95% or more of players have used websites like this. Everyone denies it, but I am yet to me someone in person that doesn't use these things. As far as I can tell, I am probably the most "legit" player around, and even I have peaked at them. It's real simple to tell who has used these websites and who has not. I am a pretty hardcore player, level 36.5...I have 6 pokemon over 3000 cp, and 6 more over 2800. If you can't tell by their pokemon, look at their dex. I have seen/caught 8 Dragonites, and seen/caught 5 Dragonires. This means I have evolved 5 and caught 3 wild ones. So I ask anyone this...how many have you caught?

I will say this. The first day I used the Twitter scanner, it was the most fun I have had in months, hunting down pokemon. It showed me that Niantic really missed out by not having a real scanner. That being said, since then, I have rarely used the scanner. Why? For the most part, I simply don't have the time to sit around and watch it. On top of that, I'm simply not going to get up and drive 10-20 minutes (one way) for something like a Larvitar.

In my experience, there are 3 things that make a real difference in this game...
1. Botting/spoofing
2. Buying coins
3. Dedication

The big difference between myself, and other players I have come across, is the pokemon I have hatched. I have hatched 1,766 eggs. I know I have spent hundreds of dollars on this game. That is where all my good pokemon have come from.

And even though my pokemon aren't as great as most, my dedication has significantly impacted the area. I quit playing for 2 months and when I came back, the gym scene in my area changed a lot. Turns out that I single-handedly deterred people from attacking several gyms. I learned this from players on other teams, and I was surprised to hear it. Gyms were blue for 2 months, as soon as I came back, they went back to yellow and stayed...

So back to your main question, I think most people do the casual cheating and do it just to improve their entertainment and get the most out of the game, and at the end of the day, it really doesn't make a difference. I really don't fault these people, even though I may be jealous over a pokemon once in a while.

As for the malicious cheaters...they are just crappy people and I don't know what is going on in their head.

I hope my post gives some insight! Good night everyone!

Thanks for the detailed response and insight.... I guess none of us could throw the first stone, and I'm probably guilty of "cheating light"... i.e., using TSR's nest atlas and even sometimes checking on my mons in gyms with gymhuntr.... but that's as far as I have gone or would ever go.

That casual cheating is so prevalent reflects poor game design. Examples include regional species, the speed limit and the terrible tracker. When GPS drift interrupts your gym battles or gets you softbanned, you may wonder why you bother playing fair when the game keeps cheating you.

Disclaimer: I am level 33 and have never spoofed (despite the above occasionally tempting me to). I do use SGPokeMap; without it, the game would not be worth playing.

About the casual player cheater you talk about, the ones that use maps but actually walks there I admit I have done it, but the truth is that as myself most of the players that sometime has used a map is because the poor game design, the in game tracker does not fit my needs at all, and I think that when a lot of players need to use those external apps is because Niantic has not done their job well.

I am not excusing myself, just explaining my case and my town people case, we have not many stops, probably 10-12 that I remember, but they are very condensed on a small part of the town and there are huge areas of the town that are blank, no stops and no gyms, I live on one of this areas, my closest stop is near 1km away, and the useless tracker keep showing the 4-6 mon that are always at the cluster of that particular stop, thanks to the tracker and WhatsApp/FB group I have caught Snorlax, Dratini and other rares near home, while NEVER a single rare spawned at that stop that is 1km away.

I think that if they are gonna use this kind of tracking system forever the less they could do is make the rares spawn at stops,not on the other regular spawns and also add a lot more stops, not a single one added in my town since release...

Dunno about criminal mind, but some people are proud to screw the system (probably not seeing the difference between games, where rules add to fun, and actual governments who are the biggest cheaters of all so screwing them is a Chaotic Good thing to do) and others just see honest people as fools. These same people often like to troll and bully. And this mindset is usually formed during the childhood.

Good point.

The worst cheating I've done is leave the app running while I'm at home to get some km from gps drift. It's justifiable to me because I bet the distance counter doesn't count everything I walk. They say Apple Watch counts it even when you walk on a treadmill, and if I was a rich snob I'd wear it at home for the same effect. I can walk 10 km and more on a good day but damn my shoulder hurts from the backpack. Now someone else could justify spoofing because they hurt much worse or are disabled (an example from some comment). Like, the game screws them, why not screw the game. If they spoof smart and imitate a normal player they might not get noticed at all. But some get greedy, and here we arrive at the extensive and variegated area of psychological problems.

Two big reasons.
1- They are actually having "fun" hurting people or ruinning their gaming experience.
2- There is no way you can play the game unless niantic starts a pokestop request system in some areas even parts of big cities.
I m watching people on YouTube having hundreds of pokestops in sight while all I have is 3 in a 5 km radius and so far away from each other. That drives people to cheat out of frustration.
I just hate spoofers. I hope they get rid of it. But also niantic needs to make them more playable for everyone.

Why do people steal candy from babies?
Why does a billionaire steal countless thousands of peoples' life savings (read Bernie Madoff)?

There is a certain percentage of a given population that has no moral compass whether by having bad parents, being born a sociopath, or anything in between.

Bad things don't happen in Andy Griffith's Mayberry. We don't live there.

If one person pees in the swimming pool it goes largely unnoticed. If fifty people pee in the pool, people complain to the lifeguard and leave. Since no one wants to swim in a toilet the pool owner has to get the un-potty-trained out. But as long as enough people continue swimming, he has no motivation to do anything about the problem. It will take everybody getting out of the pool at the same time before it gets cleaned.

In other words, bitching about the problem to each other isn't changing a thing. I can picture Niantic execs happily reading these posts while counting their money. A massive user side change in behavior, in action, will get someone's attention.

I like the analogy!
So should we pee in the pool or get out of it?

There are things Niantic can do, and have started to... We can only hope that it will help.

Meanwhile, how is it going to help if I don't send another penny to Niantic? Unfortunately, the whole world isn't going to boycott the game, it would take a massive number of users to stop paying to send them that message.

But you're right, there will always be a certain element that enjoys messing with others.

That last paragraph is gold, this is exactly the point I am trying to make since a lot of months ago, last time I paid real money was during halloween event, have not spent a single cent since then, my town is full of spoofers and the game is full of bugs, why would I pay for this kind of product? And I keep spreading the word to everyone I meet, trying to make them find gyms on less populated areas in order to stop giving Niantic money, even putting pidgey on gyms that I know other legal players fight despite not being from my team so other legal can take coins in my town too.

I am tired of them not doing anything, just attacking external map apps and hardcore players on their way, they are completely blind and not a single thing has been done right to stop cheaters at this point.

The only actual thing that has stopped some cheaters is not even from Niantic, it has been an Android update that stops mock location, but until cheaters get their Android's to that version it will just slow them.

Anyway, everyone is free to do what they want, but everyone that thinks like us you should consider stop paying them, hurt them on their pockets, is the only language they seem to listen as they only care about numbers, let's show them our angry numbers.

The biggest problem is that they have a monopoly. The day that a competing product/game comes along it will be mutiny! Are you reading this game designers?

I started playing this game because I was rehabilitating/ doing physical therapy. If there was another game that got me to walk 3-5 miles per day I would try it today.

In other words, I would go swimming in someone else's pool.

Some of us have to pay (rural players like me) because we just don't have the resources city players have (lack of pokestops, gyms). But I think that because the majority of players are casual (i.e., don't care about gym battling, just want to catch them all), they don't really care about spoofers and other cheaters too much as it doesn't affect them. So they won't refuse to pay or change their habits in any way.

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