Forretress massively underrated as a defender
Same with skaramory and a few others with lower max cp. This mons have minimal weakness and like with forretress have rock and ground moves to cover them. Yes they sit lower in gyms traditionally but if you max them out they could seemingly be really potent defenders surrounded by the right group of teammates. Other examples could include lanturn, quagshire, miltank, mantine etc, I find all relatively difficult to fight despite their cps being all fairly low, consequently if one of these is in a gym by itself I'd argue it may hold up even better than higher cp counterparts with far more blatant weaknesses and less counter moves. Just food for thought as an alternative to having 20 vapes in gyms. Would be interested in hearing if anyone else takes time to build up these lower cp guys just to keep a unique flavor in gyms. Personally I've been lucky enough to have 4 or 5 highest tier forretresses that I've spent resources to max out near 1800-2000 cp and they've failed well in many circumstances and with rock tomb especially cover their one weakness (fire) fairly decently
Answers
Yeah i mean i guess I'm beating a dead horse with the way the gym system is still currently constructed I just think it's an intriguing idea that if one of these guys is the only one placed in an open gym it may on its own defend its place better than many higher cp mons based on less weakness good defensive stats and effective counter movesets to its one of two true weakness, just unfortunate it'll always be lower sitting at level 40 of course
I'd also like to see an increase in the magnitude of Super effective and Not very effective, OR a decrease in STAB bonus, preferably the first option. Using stab water gun against charizard shouldn't result in neutral damage, in my opinion. I dislike how stab compensates entirely against not very effective defenders.
Yes many pokemons are, the thing is sitting in the bottom of the gym isnt that nice that is why people dont put low cp pokemons
And the reason why you have difficult regardless of the CP is because the level of the pokemons too, the level plays a big part, a lvl 20 pokemon with cp 1000 will destroy a lvl 10 pokemon with cp 2000
CP is the worst thing to have happened to this game, it says nothing about the real strength of pokemons, its just a number for sit higuer in gyms, Dragonite isnt strong because his high CP is strong because his base stats but he is melted by Lapras, especially if that lapras has the same lvl as him, CP is about gym thingy only
It also favors the way gyms are set up where I live as I'm normally in 15-18 gyms just on my very rural commute to work 45 mins away in upstate New York I can get away with a 1900 forretress occasionally as one of the higher guys in a super rural gym just because the lack of action ha just more of an interesting theory I thought as opposed to it being practical the way gyms are currently set up with cp reigning supreme, in a practical sense I just think it's noteworthy that some of these guys hold up quite well when battling them in gyms despite the lower cps
Absolutely just by trying to experiment with guys defending in gyms where I can get away with it it's fun to notice that some of these guys hold up really well on their own as opposed to blowing through a dragonite with a jynx or lapras, even attacking a forretress with a flareon isn't a cake walk if it hits you with a rock tomb out of nowhere or a quagshire sludge bomb when inconspicuously attacking with a plant guy or whatever, having a decent counter moveset on top of excellent defensive stats puts them a step above many common guys in gyms today that are simply there because of cp, yes I understand it's awesome to put an 2400cp golem more than halfway up a gym but I try to take at least a little solace in the fact that I can make a level ten gym a lot tougher by throwing in a 1600 miltank with zen headbutt and body slam into that 2nd or 3rd whole, like I mentioned in the other post I'm not in the most competitive area in the world so I'm especially more apt to doing this when I'm over the ten gym limit and I think it complements teammates that are higher up in gyms really nicely making those lower gym rungs particularly difficult to get through
https://pokeassistant.com/main/defenders?locale=en I always thought this was an interesting take piggy backing on this conversation I guess by at least selecting guys with as few weaknesses as possible on top of the highest defensive stats as possible you can at least attempt to eliminate the possibility that most casual players would have one really good guy that could take your defender out, obviously anyone who players fairly regularly will have great counters for any circumstance but if a forretress only has a weakness to fire and most casual players don't have a flareon with overheat it's not gonna be the easiest time in the whole world to beat him or a great electric guy against a skaramory, like you mentioned using a low cp defender of choice as slowbro, he has decent defensive stats at 194 and hp at 190 but the casual player may be more apt to having a good attacking mon with weaknesses to bug ghost grass electric and dark as opposed to a forretress with just an adversion to fire and stats of def 242 and stamina 150, frankly I like the idea of either and hopefully there will be a day that credit is given to lower cp guys in gyms I just think it's a cool topic of low cp guys that can hold their own and are often overlooked just based on the gym dynamic in accordance to higher cp guys that have tons of weaknesses and worse defensive stats and are far easier to mow through
I think the important adpect here is having 10 gyms with high CP to collect. Above that yes, I think is a good idea to put tough defenders to help teammates. But not when gym is small, will make the gym hard to prestige, so decressing the helping hand. Or add your fortrress, slowbro/king and prestige the gym for 10k by yourself?
You're absolutely right I'm just in a unique circumstance where I can still get my ten gym credit and get to tinker around and experiment with what works and what doesn't and different observations I have with random low traffic other gyms. The one coup as well is when knocked out these higher defensive stat guys take so many less potions to revive to full strength skaramory and forretress tend to need little more than a super potion on occasion after being revive ls to be back and ready to go, obviously this doesn't offset the ability to throw a run of the mill vape more than halfway up a gym but it's a nice perk of using some of these lower cp guys and it's fun seeing friends who aren't used to fighting some of these characters struggle more than they'd expect on lower tiers in gyms that they're used to blowing through, I'm definitely not claiming that in the current gym setup it's the most practical thing to do as I realize especially in bigger cities how hardcore some gym scenes are it's just more of an observation that solely on their own in comparison to many higher cp dudes some lower cp defenders perform surprisingly efficient
While I would like diversity in gyms just as a change of pace, I have no idea where this ""Pokémon X is great but has too low a CP" crap comes from. The Poke in question has lesser base stats than other ones with double weaknesses and a double weakness to fire. Once again, all defenders are easy except Blissey and to a lesser extent Snorlax. Steelix, Forrettress, etc would add a week of novelty to gyms if there was some change but after that week we would be asking why Ekans isn't in gyms instead of those ones etc. The truth is they all suck
I've prestiged against Steelix, it's such a pain. When I have a Forretress with the right moves I might power it up for defense eventually. Nothing is set with gyms in the city, my longest standing defender is a Gengar I threw in some gym without much thought. But I'm bored with gyms lately, the rework can't come too soon.
