How would you like to see gyms balanced?
There are a number of ways to do this. The most obvious to me would be to have two or three different pokemon of each type with combat powers nearing 3000. People don't defend with their Umbreons or Bellosoms because they would get shaved right quick. Close the gap, solve the problem.(?)
Answers
I favor changing the CP formula to better reflect defensive ability. Dragonite, Rhydon, and Gyarados are actually poor defenders that have high CP due to the way the attack stat factors in.
Also, all clear should be worth more and defeating individual mons worth less. One idea would be to use the prestege formula in reverse for each mon defeated with the -1k*(mon+1) as the all clear bonus. (If you take 6, 3K dragons, you better get the win under this system.) This would put more importance on strategic defense, instead of just CP.
Im hoping the upcoming change will promote diversity.
I have a vague idea that if a gym is filled with pokemons having different typings the gym will get a boost in some way. This will promote the usage of different mons, and creating a climate where trainers talk to each others at gyms to work together for diversity.
It would also create a situation where you have to use a more variation of pokemons when attacking.
the concept was supposed to be to encourage team work but it doesn't it just favors the team with the greatest numbers and esp the greatest numbers of high level players (esp cheats).
Something to address team balance to equate the reward with the effort spent, when some people can sit on a level 10 gym for months and at most pull out three mons when they attack vs having to pull down a level 8 gym every day just to claim 10 coins and a handful of dust.
To have any real and lasting change it would require a total rework. Some combination of the following:
- A defender CP/rating system.
- An improvement of defenders in general and defensive function.
- Perhaps some limits to total mons placed or types but it would have to be a lose limit.
- Perhaps also a change in attack stat mechanics. Likely a lessening in STAB and an increase of move type effectiveness.
- Rewards structure change. Pay coins to take down gyms so they change hands. Reward also for holding them. Some mix of dust and coins idk but there is no reason that someone that spends an hour taking down a Blissey tower but gets knocked out gets nothing but dust while someone can shave into a different gym for 10 coins. Other aspects of rewards could be tweaked too in favor of diversity placement.
Other minor things would have to change too.
The simple things people suggest would put us right back where we are now once folks adjust their rosters like "one mon type" and would have detrimental effects for players that do not have access to 15 gyms in their area. I keep seeing folks say "Dragonites (and similar) are toothless defenders"...well that damn Ekans folks want to see for diversity is worse. So are 98% of the diversity mons. Players will just power up a different counter and we will be right back here in a week. And I have no interest in seeing a super weak gym with junk mons that is too easy. The problem is one way or another all defenders except Blissey and to an much lesser extent Snorlax are ALL toothless and the weaker ones are just more so.
Other minor combinations of suggested ideas could have benefits too but without the total rework they will have just as many detrimental consequences or will put us in a similar place in a month or less.
I don't want to see Major Changes, I think most changes will ruin the game.
1) Limit of Pokemon Type in Game = Ruin the Game. Why bother collecting multiples anymore.
2) Upkeep Cost that requires you to go back to the Gym = Ruin the Game. Why explore? Why benefit spoofers who can pay the upkeep from home vs players.
3) Idea of more diversity is a False Hope. The problem is too basic Some Pokemon are simply stronger than others. Vaperon is always going to be better than Goldduck. It was in every incarnation of the game.
I wouldn't mind seeing some minor Tweaks
Create a Stat that is "Defensive Power" where DP = CP + a flat modifier. Each move could have a DP Score so better moves will raise some pokemon relative to others. You could put a -200 dp on any pokemon with a Double Weakness.
I could live with Feeding Pokemon if you could do it from home without spoofing. This would make the Gym Hogs less likely to hog 20+ or 30+ gyms and have to pay that many berries a day.
What about a reward (once everyou 21 hours for a single gym) where you get coins or dust for taking an enemy gym down. For example, coins = floor (prestige/2000) + 1. So taking down a 45000 prestige, level 9 gym would earn you 23 coins. Maybe add in +500 dust for each gym takedown.
I feel like the basic issue is that gym takedown isn't worth it. There is a gym 100ft from my house that I stopped fighting because it gets back up to a level 8 for another team in under 21 hours. Coins for a takedown and then "daily" bonus for holding gyms.
What is gastlystrat? Do you just mean a confusion kadabra against a ghastly?
Also, the idea is that, like the daily rewards, it can only be done once on a given gym per 21 hours.
Obviously anything one account gets rewards from can be used to get the reward multiple times if you have multiple accounts. I really don't see that as a reason not to do something. By that logic, there should be no rare spawns, since multi-accounters can get them on all their accounts.
The key test is if it provides an unfair advantage to cheaters, which it wouldnt. Maybe a spoofer could use it to do it at a remote gym.
My point was that if 2 people/friends/whatever wanted to get coins, one can just go to 1 gym, strat the gym up, friend or other account tear down and get lots of coins or experience/dust whatever.
You state 21 coins or so which isn't a lot, but I suppose I am hoping for something more drastic as a change and if the coins are so low, they can just attack any low level 3 gym or a couple and get the same number of coins vs. fighting a 45k prestiged rival gym.
I agree that there should be other ways to earn Pokecoins and the current system is not balanced...but Niantic needs to find a system where it changes the meta where same team members don't like their other team members due to shaving/sniping of spots, and other teams are locked out of gyms due to team imbalances...
I forget who posted this on reddit-SR, but an idea he/she mentioned that should be considered is not make gyms all or none...
You are in a stagnant gym, you win (get coins/dust)...All your teammates and rival teams get zilch and if anything, your teammates WANTs the gym to fall so they have a chance to get back in.
To fix this, you need to completely rewamp the gym system where ALL teams can be in a gym and collect coins or rewards.
Currently, it's worst to be on a dominant team with stagnant level 10 towers because you can't attack your own gyms unless you multi-account.
An idea is there is a prestige gauge so if you go to a remote gym up a hill, you can prestige for an hour and "store up" tens of thousands of prestige points and whoever has the most "wins" or gets rewards for it.
Maybe they can allow say 5 from each team to do this and all get rewards.
This DOES take away the gym turf wars and you're now competing with your own team to be the very best, but at least either skilled players (great prestigers) or hard core grinders (spend hours) can get to the top of a gym they are close to daily...
Add in some form of decay and locals can eventually get the gym back if you don't want to waste your candies/berries to keep it at the gym.
Spoofers will always win so nothing in this fights that, but just some idea that EVERYONE should be able to have a chance to interact with a gym vs. now.
I actually have what I think is a change that would improve diversity, make the pokemon who are "defensive stars" more likely to get into a gym (regardless of CP), and reward those who work to build up gyms.
- For those who tear down an opposing gym, the first three defenders added are guaranteed to be the top three defenders regardless of CP or type.
This encourages players to tear down opposing gyms, keeping them fluid. By guaranteeing the first three spots to the first who enter the gym, even a team which tears down the gym is rewarded.
The only downside to this is that if a single player tears down a gym, a "drive-by" would benefit, but this may simply encourage teaming up more, which is good.
- After the top 3 positions, gym placement is based on how much prestige you add to the gym. Not, how many slots you add, but actual points of prestige.
This rewards players for building up a gym. Build it up from level 3 all the way to level 10? Great, your mon is guaranteed to be no worse than #4 (assuming it was already filled by three others when you got there). Go from 30,000 to 40,000 prestige? Great, you'll be above anyone who added less than 10,000 prestige.
Ties would be decided by CP (no reason to completely ignore this metric).
The only downside to this is that Bubblestrat would be even more valuable. To avoid this, I'd suggest requiring any mon in a gym to be at least level 5.
This approach encourages people to power up gyms (even more than a single slot), which means more players in gyms and stronger gyms overall. This balances out the incentive to tear them down from #1 above.
Overall, these changes would also encourage players to use a wider variety of mons, particularly those which are effective defenders, but which aren't used now due to low CP ensuring a bottom-rung slot. If you could get a Lapras at the top of a gym (or even slot 4), it would be an effective defender again.
What do folks think?
Those are some good ideas I think. We could squabble over some finer points but there is really no need.
Side question for you or anyone else in this thread.
I'll give you Lapras, Slowbro, and Poliwrath.They could be decent defenders among what we have now.
Who are these other "diverse defensive mons" that will make gyms stronger?
It might be neat to see 'themed' or 'typed' gyms. Like for example a 'ground gym' where ground pokemon get some sort of defensive / overall boost when assigned. So on a water-themed gym, Cloyster, Vape, Lapras, Starmie, etc, would be near-optimal defenders, whereas Rhydon would be more viable on a ground-themed gym. You could of course just throw on a Blissey or Dragonite, but they wouldn't shine as well as they currently do unless they matched the gym type. Could also leave maybe 50% of gyms with no theme, to perpetuate the existing gym scene.
any change targeting the combat value of pokemons would only favour those players who cheat by spoofing or map usage. this approach failed already twice. for both supplies them a lot easier than the rest of us with whatever species or candys they need.
in a way the same goes for typ-only gyms and such.
since we apparently cant get rid of em anytime soon, i suggest to make it easier for new players to get their mons into a gym and more work for the others to keep their income.
if you want to end stagnancy, make them moving.
cheers.
What if at every time they did a nest migration they dropped all the gyms to 0 (once every 4 weeks) and randomly assigned teams to all players? Also really need a limit on max gyms to 12-15.
Spoofers and people with multi accounts would not have as much advantage this way, at least most of the time. In my area spoofers are working as teams now with chat rooms and they are invincible this would limit their effectiveness drastically. I think more should be done but this would effect at least negatively impact spoofers.
Does anyone also think it's sorta funny how anyone can tear down a gym?
Maybe that's the point since more people can engage a gym, but like the gyms near my house, I tear it down no matter what since I use them as my daily coins...but someone could spend hours on end and max it out to 52k prestige, I tear it down and now, all 10 trainers have to come back (eg: drive back) to the gym and try again. I do this daily and get a kick seeing them all drive there. Funnier if I decide to do an evening walk and decide to knock out the last few who drove and did the 30k prestige and I take it down to 20k for laughs, then tear down the rest before their 21 hours is up...
I do this constantly since I can walk to the gym and no matter how powerful/strong (lvl) the trainers are, the gym will never survive...
As much as I like gym turnover, I suppose if we could real time defend a gym, some trainers who are just awesome would never lose a fight...and the gym would stand forever and stagnate.
You could even have a stat showing the defender (and trainer) is now 73-0 or something having never lost a match...
Real time PvP seems like it'll be so hard/impossible to do if they can't even fix the dodge bug so I'm honestly not looking forward to it, but it's funny that gyms that stay up have more to do with location and that's about it (simply, no one who plays cares to knock it down).
Stick a 10 CP Pidgey at a far off spot and it can last longer than the 10x 3219 Blissey tower in a busy area.
A couple ideas:
How about separate attack and defense CP? For instance, a gyarados that is a great all around attacker might have higher attack CP than defense CP because there are half a dozen electric moms with half the CP that can destroy it. Just spitballing but you see where I'm going.
My pet peeve- gyms that have seven gyarados in a row because by now most everyone has at least one with high enough CP to guarantee a gym slot based on that alone. I will go out of my way on a walk to smoke these kinds of gyms. Load my box with my favorite electrics, close my eyes, and tap away. Then place something that ordinarily would never last in a gym, but should, like a slowbro, poliwrath, Venosaur, Lapras.
Idea two- whoever takes down a gym becomes King regardless of CP and as the crown holder gets a say in how the gym is built. Like, saying no one can put a level 30 blissey in the first slot of a level 3 gym. (If you don't know why that's a bad idea try getting into a gym where someone has done that vs. a gym with anything else at the front door)
The king could also say at least one fire, one grass, and one ice defender before anything else gets in. Again, just spitballing.
Ideas?
