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Best Attacker against DT/O Dragonite

Hello again, Community! I hope you're enjoying the ongoing event.
This time I'll discuss who is the best attacker against a DT/O Dragonite.

[INTRODUCTION]

I'll adopt a similar method as last time when I talked about the best attacker against ZH/DG Blissey (https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/q-a/best-attacker-against-zhdg-blissey), except that:

1) The weights of "High", "Even" and "Low" are 20%, 40% and 40% respectively. As /u/Conquistador suggested, "Even" and "Low" matchups are more common than "High" ones.
2) Aside from a [KD]-[Time Left] diagram, I'll also post a [%HP Left]-[Time Left] diagram later, which is suggested by /u/Arak2.

[SIMULATION RESULTS]

The original data is here {https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15h9CkkKH27MGN7BV_2103RbvqiVthd7x4sbKoQnyjOk/edit?usp=sharing}.

I made an info graph to summarize. Please see it below.

Some highlights:
1. Blissey can K.O. Dragonite in "Low" matchup without dodging.
2. Jynx takes out Dragonite the fastest, about 2.5x faster than Blissey. Actually, it's possible that Jynx takes out Dragonite before Outrage hits.

[CONCLUDSION]
Dragonite is not a strong defender like Blissey. There are many viable options to deal with him. However, in the scope of this research:

Best five attackers against Dragonite: Jynx, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Lapras, and Blissey.

Generally,
*Speed: Jynx > Dragonite > Tyranitar = Lapras >> Blissey
*KD: Blissey >> Laparas = Tyranitar = Dragonite > Jynx

a) Jynx is actually a surprisingly good choice but often ignored.
b) P/HB Blissey has an average KD of 500% against Dragonite if you dodge all. It means that two fat Blissey are able to take down a level 10 gym of Dragonites. The rest four of your squad can just stand by and watch.
c) DB/DC and DT/O performs equally well. Dragonite is actually the top choice that I recommend for the job, a good trade off between speed and KD.
d) Lapras and Tyranitar are good choices when you solo a level 10 gym with lots of Dragonites.

Other Rock types (Golem) and Ice types (Cloyster, Piloswine) perform well, too. Snorlax, if you dodge all, is also a good choice to yield high KD. If you dodge, Gyarados, Gengar (and Alakazam) are OK choices, but sub-optimal than the above. I wouldn't suggest using Eeveelutions to deal with Dragonite.

And as always, any discussion is welcomed.

Asked by bioweapon8 years 2 months ago
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Answers

This is an alternative graph using [%HP Left] as Y-axis instead of [KD] (the X-axis is still [Time Left]):

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Piloswine with PS/A is also a good choice. PS is quick and generate a lot of energy.

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Since IS/A and PS/A are both considered A rank move set and IS/A is above, I'll just test IS/A. In case you wonder, PS/A and IS/A performs similarly. Both good moves.

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Poor Cloyster can't get no love...

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Very interesting observations.

Before your analysis I'd always say the best dragonite counters go Dragonite=Blissey> Lapras Cloyster Jynx Pilswine > Others

Seems I am partially right, as expected Dragonite is pretty high in speed but I didn't expect Jynx to be even quicker!

And I'm also in shock about how you can go through 5 dragonite with a single Blissey if you dodge all.

Do you have posession of a pound/DG Blissey by any chance? I think it will be an even better dragon slayer. Maybe it can go through 6.

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Yes I do. I've tested P/DG Blissey. Here's the fact: It's no better than P/HB Blissey, but not far behind either.

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Ah ok, I thought it would be better as it has the two bar move and losing STAB is compensated with SE on dragonite. Guess I want the Pound/HB for my chansey evolution then!

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I haven't done the calculations or anything, but I find in personal experience that (Dragontail or Iron Tail) / Heavy Slam Steelix is actually a good Dragonite prestiger/attacker with dodging.

Because Steelix has great defense and resists dragon, you can do good damage against Dragonite.

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Is Jynx with FB/Ice Beam much worse than Jynx FB/A? I have a 2000CP Jynx with Ice Beam and I was wondering if I should seek an Avalanche one...

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I think you meant FB/Ice Punch.
GP gives a B rank to this move set. So I don't think it is much worse than FB/A. But still, there's a reason why it is in B rank.
If you have a Jynx nest nearby, I suggest that you go and find a high CP FB/A ready-to-use one. It doesn't require luck in evolution.

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by Arak2 8 years 2 months ago

For dragonite, I'd add Jolteon to your list.

It's really pretty common to mix in a Gym Garys and Dragonites interchanged.

Having a Jolteon on the list, would give a good baseline for people on whether it's worth switching out or not.

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Fair point. And my Jolteon often got picked by auto-selection if the gym has Dragonite at the top, which is annoying for me.
That being said, my prediction is that Jolteon won't perform better than his brothers and sisters.

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I like your dual graphs a lot.

They are worth having a page here on GP.

In future, I would suggest making a thread before you post them on which Pokemon you are planning to include. And asking if anyone has any others they might regularly goto to include.

That way as you are building them, you can get some feedback if theres another worth including before you are done.

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Thanks for your support!
Actually, for this series, I think I'll stop for a while. The other common defenders are pretty easy to find the optimal choices: Electric against Gyarados, Vape/Eggy against Rhydon, Machamp against Tyranitar. Snorlax is a weaker Blissey so the result should not be too different. The only defender I would consider making another episode is Vape.
I'm shifting my current focus to optimal prestiging. I just got started - reading many research of different sources. This is another hot topic and the next thing I'll put into discussion.
Thanks for you feedback again. And stay tune for the prestiger discussion!

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by Arak2 8 years 2 months ago

Another suggestion for these charts.

Color Code them.

Make the Dots of one pokemon and the name (not the moves/dodge pattern) a singular color.

For example, if all "Dragonites" were listed Red and All Dragonite Dots were Red. I could glance at a second at Dragonite Comparisons to learn Move Str/Weakness.

I could also glance easier at say Red Dragonite Dots vs Blue Lapras Dots to see how Lapras compares.

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Good idea. I'll take that. I'm also considering using size of the dots to denote attacking strategy - say small for ND, medium for DSp and large for DALL.

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