Who can beat ZH/BS Snorlax without dodging?
Just had some fun to test against my own snorlax to see which of these tiered pokemon can win.
Why do this test?
This is a reasonable hurdle to overcome, while not being near impossible like Blissey.
It is also a good chance to see what an attacker is truly made of. If it can win this battle, you bet it can win a lot more.
My Lax is level 30 and 15/8/8 IV, ZH and BS.
Granted, it is not a realistic scenario to assume 0 dodging, but with dodging, every single one of the pokemon from the tier list, tiers 1-3, can defeat this snorlax.
Some results:
Tier 1:
Dragonite: Wins
Blissey: Wins (I don't have one, but I'm sure it can win)
Tier 1.5:
Tyranitar: Wins (don't have one, but resisting both ZH and BS? Easy)
Machamp: Tie (Very borderline. Dependent on how snorlax decides to cast or not cast the final body slams)
Vaporeon: Wins (fairly tight)
Tier 2:
Snorlax: Wins (fairly tight)
Exeggutor Tie (dependent on how Snorlax casts the final body slams)
Jolteon: Does not win
Lapras: Does not win
Heracross: Tie (dependent on how snorlax casts the final body slams)
Tier 2.5
Unsurprisingly, all of these fail. Espeon and Zam fairs the best among this group.
Tier 3:
Only Rhydon and Golem come out of this alive. Yes, the magical gyarados that everyone preaches, fails in this test.
Conclusion:
1. Rhydon/Golem still does well facing a ZH/BS snorlax. They'd be owned with heavy slam or earthquake, which is 2/3 of the time now.
Hence the pivotal outcomes in the cases of Egg man, Heracross, Machamp.
And finally, go farm more dratini candies!!Answers
The default simulation mode that I use on Pokebattler is "expected," which uses the defender's charge move at the second available opportunity (since the chance of a defender using the charge move is 50%). It's not a perfect solution, but it's a good option when having to compare tons of matchups.
That said, I'm glad you validated the fact that Gyarados is not a very good generalist...
He never said "Gyarados is not a good generalist"
He just said , as a generalist , Vaporeon does a better job than Gyrardos , doesn't mean he said Gyarados is bad .
He also said the mons from 2.5 and Jolteon and Lapras fail as well (the ones you ranked higher than Gary)
Gosh the hate and bias you have towards Gyarados is so real
just by reading your comment
Gyarados loses out to Vaporeon so it's a bad generalist? There's a ton of Pokémon that'll lose in this comparison. This doesn't make Gyarados bad at all. Attackers normally dodge anyway unless it's a low level gym or they're impatient. Idk who said Vaporeon was inferior but I would've said they're wrong too, but Gyarados is a top notch filler
Its cool you did your own testing, but those results are really only relevant to your specific pokemon. Prior to the last major moves update, only Rhydon could tank Snorlax. It may have changed with the new but I dont think all of those pokemon can. Other pokemon have gotten stronger moves, but BS is way better also.
