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My Gyrados inspired tweaks to Attacker Tier List

I wrote about this elsewhere. But thinking more and more about it. I would redo tier list format on Tiers 2.5 and 3 and add a Tier 3.5

The elephant in the room is Gyrados. But what makes it the elephant is the Glass Cannon's in Tier2.5.

Espeon, Alkaham, and Gengar especially. There really aren't any "Matchup" advantages for these pokemon. They are often called the "Glass Cannons" and used for thier superior dps.

However, a bite/hp is easier to dodge with than any of them. And a DT/HP is same as some of them. And while Gyrados only does 75 to 80% of these pokemon. It has 50 to 70% more hps. That means the Bulk Advantage Gyrados has is so much larger than the DPS advantage the Glass Cannons have that Gyrados is almost always superior choice.

I'd leave tier1-2 alone, they were well done.
I'd remove Alak/Gengar/Espeon from tier2.5 (leaving Flareon and charizard as Grass Killing Specialists)

Then I would make Tier3 High DPS Glass Cannons/Semi Glass Cannons and put Alka, Gengar, Espeon, and Gyrados here alone.

Then I would make the current tier3 Tier4. all replaceable by those above.

Also, I think the list overlooks combo matchups. Other than Tier 1 and 1.5 there are times when I will use Gyrados over any other tier2 choice. Namely when a Psychic type + Rhydon are back to back in a gym. Bite's Supereffectiveness on the psychic + hydropumps on Rhydon mean I don't have to switch pokemon. And switching pokemon is a almost always a waste of energy.

Asked by Arak28 years 2 months ago

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I agree with the strategy, I never use glass canons because of the current bug in gyms makes them a team hazard. Gyarados is always a top pick of mine (not due to lack of viable Mon) solely due to his massive attack stat combined with reasonable bulk. HP hits hard into anything so I'd disagree with DonDon into Gyarados viability as an attacker just due to versatility combined with bulk. Vape is clearly a better pick for damaging anything weak to water, but like OP said Gyarados can attack most anything with B or DT then HP an incoming defender before potentially switching.

True my legacy Dragonites can rip through anything faster than Gyarados, but most of them are also sitting on gyms leaving Gyarados as a secondary generalist on my team.

I'd argue that the glass cannons are more optimal only if (i).they are in the correct matchup, such as flareon vs exeggutor and/or (ii) the trainer has way too many potions and revives to expend.

And for me I do use my glass cannons precisely, but only because, of these reasons. My gengar trio gets wrecked so easily but it's awe inspiring how much damage they do to the opposition too.

If for whatever reason I travel to a pokestop deprived place and plan to do gym battling, I'd almost definitely use the gyarados squad over my gengar trio.

I agree, except that Gengar and other glass cannons are very potion efficient. They'll eat up your revives, but once they're revived they often only take one super potion to fully recover.

Tbh, they're not that potion efficient if you have multiple dragonites, as a dragonite can usually take out 3+ mons (except blissey and snorlax) whereas gengar would struggle for more than one even with dodging. Hence, per pokemon wise dragonite is probably more potion efficient.

BUT! Given that I really do want to burn my potions and revives and have some fun, I almost always go with my gengar trio when attacking after the dragonites are wiped out. And revives drop more for me than the potions, so I do want to get my gengars to faint so I have some purpose for the revives (sometimes I even watch gengar eat a hyper beam LOL).

Working on my next vid which is the gyarados vs vape, and should be including not only against neutral targets but also targets where water has advantage, eg Rhydon and T-rex. Stay tuned I guess ;)

"Other than Tier 1 and 1.5 there are times when I will use Gyrados over any other tier2 choice. Namely when a Psychic type + Rhydon are back to back in a gym."

I just want to point out that even in the case where you are fighting an Espeon followed by a Rhydon, Gyarados is not a better option than Vaporeon. Pokebattler is not equipped to do back-to-back sims, but Vaporeon is just as good, if not slightly better, in this situation.

What about Exeggutor followed by Rhydon? In that case, the optimal choice is to use Flareon and switch out to Vaporeon. You don't waste energy in this sequence because Flareon KOs Exeggutor with Overheat.

You do have to check the reverse too.

In theory craft, Gyrados is about 5.5% more raw dps than Vaperon.

When you modify the targets to be Espeon/Rhydon
Gyrados's Quick attack is gaining a 1.25 modifier on Espeon and Vaperon's Quick Attack is gaining a 1.25 modifier on Rhydon.

Meaning it should come come out to slightly edge to Gyrados.

The problem with any list vs any straight up comparison is that 1-1 comparisons, don't always match up vs multiopponents. And even in multioppoents timing matters. Do you get off say a 3rd opponent 1 HyrdroPump before swapping? If so, I'd rather that be a Gyrados HP than a Vaperon one.

As for Flareon/Eggy. Again, situational. If your going for a 10 tower with 6. You need to average over 1.5 kills per pokemon. Depends on if you can devote one slot for Flareon or not.

Like I said though, Gyrados shines as "Glass Canon Light" it combines Medium High DPS with Medium High Survivability. It can't match Vap in Survivability/Water Dept. It can't match Glass Canons in DPS. But it can do a better mix

Why does Gyara have 'slightly edge' if both have 1.25 modifier ?

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