ESPEON: Future Sight vs. Psybeam
Decided to max out my Espy today, after using her enough I'm a fan of Future Sight, hits like a Mack Truck. Now GP is normally my go-to source for understanding sets, them and a friend who has an unbelievable 8k gym battles (dude has been battling since level 5, lol). But some of you are good at breaking down the specifics I may not understand on paper.
Now 3 of my 4 sources say CxFT is better on defensive (dps) than CxPb, GP being the site that doesn't. I value 2 charge moves, so I see the value in them on defensive as I do also prefer them in an offensive duel as well, but can you Trainers tell me your thoughts between the two? Being she maxes over 29hun, I'm going to use her in mid-mid/high tier gyms. Her HP is ahhhh, but that Future Sight needs a Khalid adlib. Thanks. ?
Answers
That is answering your question. It takes so long to charge up Futuresight that Espeon may be dead before using it. Also, I've found that other sites purely rank by DPS which is an awful method because it ignores so many other factors, especially on defense.
You want multiple charge moves on defense, that's why aqua tail and body slam are considered such good defensive moves.
We talked 3-4 weeks ago, meanwhile I guess we got used to it and dodge 9 out of 10 :). Still troublesome on second Gya, if has the time to fire it will kill my jolt even dodgeing it.
Related to esp, try totoro's sheet simulator ( presented several thread earlier) you can see there the fight step by step, you can choose various attackers and see if Psy does more damage than FS. If time today, I will try that myself sina my Esp is also C/Fs and can sit in some medium gyms in my area.
I love to use Gengar vs an Espeon. It's a highly competitive duel- a confusion takes away 15% of Gengar's health whilst a Shadow ball takes away 50% of Espeon's health.
Battle ends in 10 seconds for whoever the victor is (very very close)
To answer the OP's question, I do believe Psybeam is better on defense.
On defense C/PB is clearly a better option. I fought 3 Espeon since gen2 launch, 2 with FS 1 with PB. I found PB way more annoying and tricky to dodge while I found FS easier to dodge. But I may be the exception.
Plus the fact that Espeon is a glass cannon, PB will allow him to throw at least 1 charge attack before he feints.
Basically just want to echo what others have been saying here, and also add that as more and more trainers get their hands on Bite Tyranitars (especially Bite/Crunch), Espeon's difficulty in being able to get off a single-bar charge move on defense will only increase.
I honestly don't mind Confusion for attacking, either. You can get into a good rhythm of Confusion, dodge, Confusion, dodge, etc. It's got higher DPS and EPS to Zen Headbutt, so you can use this bad boy on attack if you like. Enjoy!
Nice mon.
Around my area Houndour/Houndoom are everywhere, so Espeon does not last long in a gym.
Compared to many other mons you would use for defense she has very low HP...so she will faint very quickly.
Even with a Houndoom that has IV that makes it disposable after battle, it will easily take her out before she gets Fs to fire. I can only imagine what Tyranitar would do to her.
On the other hand PsyBeam will nearly always fire even in a fast battle as it takes a lot less energy to charge it up.
For me...Fs for attack, and PsyBeam for defense.
Espeon hits very hard though and you force an attacker to pick a specific mon just for her, add one or two Blissey and that gym should be fine.
Dark mons are plenty thanks due to Murkrow but since those are all glass canons as well as the fact that confusion stings. Unexperienced players and those too lazy to perfectly dodge are punished.
The good thing about FS is that it's one hit and your attacker faints or is very close to. Even Dragonite is not a great attacker into Espeon. PB may be more annoying but less effective.
I hope that made sense.
Later Edit: Ups, My choice of dodging CM/Fill affected quick move dodge settings, so all I said below dotted line is without quick move dodging :(.
With Dodge All/Wait settings the number are quite different in values, but still FS better in the case of Exe, Dragonite and Tyra. In Venu's case Psybeam was a bit better.
Now, for Gengar, with dodge all Gengar eats Esp alive:
- Esp doe not have time to fire a Futuresight in this case, dies after his first 3 Confusions :).
- Esp fires Confusion, Psy, Confusion and dies.
So, depending on meta (what mons will attack on Espeon and how good are at dodging), things can be different:
- if you take worst matchups than Psy is clearly better.
- if you consider Espeon will be near a Vape and the attacker will use a Vape counter, than FS is marginally better, with or without quick move dodging.
END of edit
---------Dotted line---Dotted line-----Dotted line------------
I encourage you all that are curios to use this from totoro:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TGMj8MK90hMYmvehzCLyEu4roXswLJlIC4h7-pmyj5I/edit
Just did and for my scenarios FS is better :).
Given that OP said will be in mid/high gyms I supposed will be placed around Vapes and in that case I have the fallowing input data:
- dodge all (since Conf has to be dodged); Later Edit: in fact I used CM/Fill setting that removed quick move dodge setting. See above dotted line for results with dodge all.
- lvl 30 attacker with 12/12/15 (att, def, sta)
- lvl 35 Espeon, 9/15/15 (happens to be the IV of mine) I have the following:
1. I will start with a Venu to take Esp and Vape. Big mistake. If I will lvl my Esp to lvl 35, he will kill my lvl 30 Venu, while a Psybeam one will loose letting my Venu with 6 HP. So my stupid choice of attacker based on next defender will cost me my attacker.
2. Next in line, Exe with Conf/SolarBeam. I don't have one, but a lot of trainers have as attacker into Vapes and Blisseys). lvl 30, Exe wins in both cases, but vs. FS 39 HP left, vs, PsyBeam 51 HP left. So again FS better.
3. Did not like it, I will go with Db/DC one. FS let's me with 51 HP, need max attention in next battle, while Psybeam allows me to take on next Vape with 63 HP, just enough to kill it witount worries.
So for attacker that are good on Vapes, FS is better.
I don't have a good dark attacker, Umbreon for prestige and I don't have Tyra or Hound, that are very rare in my city (and hence my meta). So appears that for my meta FS is better on defence :).
Now, the dark ones
1. Tyra with B/SE - 86 HP left with FS (1 fired), 96 Hp with Psy (2 fired). Again, FS better.
Ok ok, Tyra will not be lvl 30 since we want him max to top gyms when needed.
2. Tyra lvl 36 (not all are lvl 39, a lot are or will be lvl 34-35 by the time will have a max Tyra :) ).
FS - 98 HP left, 1 FS fired
Psybeam - 117 HO left, 1 Psybeam fired
So, still FS better....
So , I might be wrong in my choice of attacker (for large gyms), but if not, FS is better.
Anyway, let's try a legacy Gengar, Shadow Claw/Shadow Ball, lvl 30. As someone before mentioned the fight is in the edge, in my case the poor Gengar looses, and Esp with FS survives with more HP.
For reference, some results from the file, to double check my settings:
Tyranitar 36 Bite Stone Edge 15/12/15 Espeon 35 Confusion Futuresight 9/15/15 Dodge CM/Fill 1 1 1 1 2 Attacker with 87 seconds and 98 HP left Attacker 87 98 190
Gengar 30 Shadow Claw Shadow Ball 12/12/15 Espeon 35 Confusion Psybeam 9/15/15 Dodge CM/Fill 100% 100% 1 1 2.0 Defender with 89.6 seconds and 40 HP left Defender 89.6 40 619
TL;DR - FS better results using Totoro's simulator. Even vs a Tyranitar lvl 39, a lvl 35 Esp fired FS once (this detail might worth a deeper look into int). Edit: this is with Charge move dodging only.
With Dodge all it depends, FS might be better if you attack with a mon that have to take a Vape after that. (Exe, Dragonite, even Tyra). Gengar literary destroys it with dodge all, PsyBeam fire ones, right after 1st Confusion.
