I was getting sick of gym "shavers".
Those with accounts on two teams, who instead of prestiging up a gym to the next level, shave off the lowest rung, switch users, prestige up a tiny bit, and install their defender. Just because it's way easier than prestiging.
I even benefitted from one of these guys once (I was going to prestige up a L9 gym with two Blisseys on the bottom, which would have taken a LONG time. Found someone attacking it, and figured I would just walk away and wait until the gym belonged to the other team before attacking. They just shaved off the two Blisseys)
Until now, I've resisted the urge to join them, making a separate account for that purpose. But the practice has become so common here, I'm thinking of joining them. I would probably only try to shave L10 gyms.
Thoughts? Should I become part of the problem?
Not sure how spoofing matters.
In the case of the two blissey shaving, that wasn't a spoofer - they were there.
Also, spoofers generally won't put their new pokemon at the bottom of the gym, so you can't shave them out without taking out most of the gym... There is no real way to target anyone specific in Pokemon Go without hurting everyone else at the gym, and that really is the way it should be...
I've actually thought about this because gym stagnation is going strong at some of my regular gyms and at some I'm close to the bottom or last, I wonder, what if I get shaven out and the gyms stays inactive for weeks to get back in and possibly missing out on coins?
The answer for me is no, I won't join gym shavers and instead cut my losses, who knows, maybe Niantic will get them and ban them in the end.
It is a horrible thing to do!!! If you really feel like joining then it's time to take a break or quit. The moment you start cheating you will always know that you could not hack it legit and you have lost probably at the expense of a real player that was last I the gym and did prestige!
I meet a spoofer and he had to lie about the account he was using (one of many), it is because no one repects a cheat! Stay strong and play straight!
Potentially, if you are strong enough willed you can make a compromise shaving account.
IE: Only shave yourself out of a Gym, so you can put in something stronger or power something up.
I've always thought trainers should have the ability to go back to a gym and "pull" out their own pokemon (and Gym drop 2k prestige)
I hope you don't start, but this is why levels above 30 are more important than people give it credit for...especially if you try to hold gyms.
You see so many people state that Lucky eggs are a waste, but I think at levels 30+, levels are even more important since 100 CP (which is = 2 full trainer levels) can mean the difference between the top rungs of a gym or the lower parts. Levels are much much of a grind and slower after 34+ so leveling faster than others is key to prevent getting shaved off.
I'm hoarding as much evolve fodder as I can now so when double exp comes again (which I think we can all agree will happen eventually), leveling up will push me further ahead of my "teammates".
This may not work for very popular areas like Tokyo, San Fran, etc...where everyone is level 36+, and everyone grinds like mad, but in smaller towns, it will stop you from getting shaved off.
Me and the wife just put our mons back in a gym where we were shaved (gym never completely fell) and it's nice after a few levels to be near the top in placement again.
I think if I can get to level 36, the players in my area aren't the best (don't power up only 100%, etc...) so I should be pretty safe after that for a while...at least till gym rankings change.
I have mixed feelings in General on this.
It is cheating though according to the terms of use.
But morally, it depends on how you want to view it.
If you view Pokemon go as an Individual Game. Shaving is stabbing in the back a teammate. It's the ultimate self-greed and you are being selfish.
If you view Pokemon as a Team vs Team Game. Shaving is making your team stronger and helping other 9 teammaters by making it more unlikely for the Gym to be attacked by another team. ((In this case the one being shaved is angry/selfish by wanting thier weak pokemon in Gym instead of stronger one))
Either way, you have the same morals and emotions.
It just depends on how you look at the game
As if anyone shaved selectively for the greater good of the team... The so-called better mon usually turns out to be a dragonite or gyardos high cp-crap defender.
Just the other day my 2900 Blissey (which I had put in after conquering and securing the gym for my team a few days earlier, despite having higher cp mons at my disposition) got shaved off what had become by then the bottom of the gym, to be replaced by a 31xx dragonite (which joined many others who had gotten in the very same way). Go team.
Don't kid yourself, shavers are just selfish ***holes in any conceivable scenario!
I suppose your right that a person could replace a Stronger Defender with a Weaker
But thats area dependent. In mine, shaving is usually 2000-2300ish Vaperons, Flareons, etc. replaced with 2700-3000ish Vaperons, Gyrados.
So yes, I generally don't see Strong bottoms shaved for weak highers.
You're right thought when you get to the point where powered up Blisseys are the bottom of Gyms, you can't shave to make the Gym Stronger. I just dont think most areas are at that point.
I think you are missing the point here. I would rather go down as part of a legitimate weak gym where everyone honestly fought for their place than survive as part of a dishonest strong gym which I share with a lot of freeloaders. Am just not so desperate for money or dust to sell out my pride, I guess.
Btw, I think cheaters with a "philosophy" are the worst kind
I'm not missing the point. You sort of missed the point I was making by selectively reading. I started by saying self shaving is cheating. So if you want to take the point that cheating is bad, okay. I can accept that.
But Since you don't need to cheat to shave. Friends/Family on Seperate Teams can shave for each other.
So it doesn't really make the question any different on what your view of shaving is.... .
Is pokemon go a "Solo" game in which case you are screwing over your team, and all "me-centric"
Or is Pokemon a "Team" vs "Team" game, in which case if you are making your team stronger.... that makes it okay.
I don't pretend to have the answers, but I just know it depends on how you want to look at the game.
Funny you should mention that: I am sitting on 48 chansey candies right now, so I could. But I am saving up for the next Blissey, because I believe that two 2900ish Blisseys will serve the team better. I will be more likely to conquer and secure new territory with those than with, say, any dragonite or tyranitar.
It is quite apparent you and I do not share the same goals in this game, which is fine with me as I think I would rather not be associated with you :-)
No, fuck those people.
If someone wants to put in a new Pokemon they prestige the gym up to get a spot in it.
To use a 2nd account (which is cheating) to knock some poor player out just so that you can get a spot is just wrong.
If there's a problem with cheating (spoofing, "shaving" or other), we should not join them and become part of the problem. We should fight them.
It's complicated
Regarding team vs individual play, although Niantic pays lip service to "working in teams" they have done NOTHING to foster team spirit, e.g. basic messaging built in, team events etc.
However I don't like the end result of shaving, i.e. boring gyms filed only with highest CP pkm. One species/gym rule would go a long way to address that.
OTOH, shaving does provide some incentive for playing and leveling up - 9 of the 10 gyms in my suburban town are stable blue towers (Level 10) - the other is a level 2 Instinct atm LOL! Good for them!
Bottom line, as OP suggests, the current gym meta (at least in some areas) almost requires a 2nd account or a strategic alliance to play competitively. And between those 2 options, I believe a 2-account player has actually done more work (if legit playing a 2nd account) then just calling in a buddy or using GF account for a mutual sniping session.
Lol. You gotta be the most aggressive personality on this board, calling people out and cussin left and right. Don't really think it's necessary though. I think we get it. You are a die hard trainer that takes this game very seriously, it's your life. There are some casual players here and some just interested in the mechanics and strategy of the game. No need to put others down. We all play the game differently. I'm ok with my "game' being weak compared to you, it's just a game to me, not my life. You trying to convince others of your opinion with personal attacks comes off as ghetto and really doesn't help proving your point. You are either a young kid or immature adult who really doesn't know how to communicate effectively. You seem to take offense to everyone that disagrees with you, and then get defensive about it. You think it's "keeping it real" 100, but if that's your reality bruh, it's kinda sad.
There are plenty of good / smart people on this board who get a lot more respect than someone who just signed-up week or two ago running his mouth like he owns the board and think his opinion is the only one that matters. You need to calm down and stop being an ass.
Red, I see where you are coming from, but is it not the worst of two worlds to just delete all of the moron's posts in this thread if you are not banning him from this forum altogether?
Now he remains active while the testimony to his stupidity has been mercifully deleted and a lot of users may have missed with what kind of a nitwit they are dealing here. Just saying...
I'm in with those who think that shaving is just another way of cheating. When a co-worker of mine mentioned that he had another account made to knock out lower mons to put in his own, I really lost a little respect first him. At least he was being honest though, he was doing it for the coins, not there greater good. I do agree that the gym system is flawed and that the spoofers pretty much ruin everything, but I'm not going to stoop to their level.
spoofing directly hurts other players, it allows access to more powerfull mons sooner and in higher numbers then a non cheater, it means to burn a tower I have to spend more potions esp as a minority team and more frequently have to spend time restocking (which is also easier for spoofers), it means a spoofer can easily keep 20+ gyms ensuring a flow of 100 coins a day were i am lucky to gen 40-50 which means more incubators further cementing their advantage.
(original poster)
OK - decided not to do it.
I've found that with patience, most L10 gyms become L9 gyms eventually and you can get in the right way (just happened with the gym at the corner of my house - been waiting for weeks to get into that one, the only stable red gym in town, and I was shaved out 3 weeks ago.... Became L9 twice before, but I didn't have my highest CP defender to put in it, the only one I have that would be stable in there, but this time I did. That made me feel a bit better)
