GamePress

Dragonite - Attacking Movesets Ranking

Submit Feedback or Error

I have ranked the following movesets roughly. Agree with this ranking??

(A) *Dragon Breath / Dragon Claw

(A) Dragon Tail / Outrage

(B) *Dragon Breath / Dragon Pulse
(B) *Dragon Breath / Hyper Beam
(B) Dragon Tail / Hurricane

(B) *Steel Wing / Dragon Claw

(D) Steel Wing / Hyper Beam
(D) Dragon Tail / Hyper Beam

Asked by ckycky_ckycky8 years 2 months ago

Report

Answers

Mine would be as follows:

Tier A:
(1st) Dragon Breath / Dragon Claw
(2nd) Dragon Tail / Outrage
(3rd) Dragon Breath / Dragon Pulse

Tier B:
(1st) Dragon Breath / Hyper Beam
(joint-1st) Dragon Tail / Hurricane

The rest of the Dragonite movesets are not as good compared to the above. DT/Hyper Beam does less DPS for me because (i) HB does not have STAB and (ii) Hyper Beam exposes you to taking damage for way too long.

As for all the SW movesets, they feel too slow (and SW does not do STAB damage). The only exception to this could be SW/DC but it definitely feels inferior to the DB movesets and to DT/Outrage and DT/Hurricane as well.

Just from my own field testing, see what works for you.

IMO, DB/DP and DB/HB should be ranked as the same tier. They have similar CD and DB/HB allows you to use more quick attack before releasing the charge attack despite the lack of STAB.
If the defender is ZH/BS Snorlax, using DB/HB is better than DB/DP.

I think a lot of people underestimate HyperBeam now based on how it used to be before the update. The old cooldown was 4.9 seconds which meant you'd get hit by at least 2 quickmoves during execution. Now it's shaved down to 3.8 seconds which is only slightly longer than DP (3.7sec) and actually lower than the much more popular Outrage (3.9sec). Against slow, hard-hitting quickmoves you'll only have to take one to the face if you time it right.

Sure, DP and Outrage get STAB and charge twice as quickly and that's why they are still superior IMO. Compared to Hurricane I don't think there's a huge difference, and paired with DT or DB I think HyperBeam is worthy of tier B.

DB/HB deals more DPS than DP despite STAB bonus. You can check the updated. Spreadsheet on Trainer Tips' channel. DPs CD and animation is too long, as long as HB as well. With HB dealing 150 damage per charge, it surpasses DP by a long margin.

Has the spreadsheet on "Trainer Tips" channel already heared anything about "energy"? This is the name of a ressource, that is needed to cast charged attacks (called "charged", because "energy" is needed to charge them first, before use).

To compare two movesets, at least you (if "trainer tips" forgets) should take into account energy cost of a charged move too.

If you combine all known knowledge about moves and damage formula, you will be surprised to see, that db/dp deals 1,5% more damage than db/hb.

Although I am not that deep into the numbers I must say that fighting with DP is much better in the common matchups you use Dragonite for (Blissey, Snorlax, Vaporeon). I have one of each with similar CP and IVs maxed out, so theres no difference here.

Evaluation by pure damage:

A (96-100%)
DT/O
DT/H

B (92-96%)
free

C (88-92%)
SW/O
DB/DC
DT/HB
DB/DP
DB/HB

D 84-88%
SW/DC
SW /H

E 80-84%
SW/DP

F <80%
SW / HB

If you like to adjust this table for speed (dodging,...) i suggest to move all DB-Movesets 1 Note up, maybe DC and Hurricane one note up too.

People gonna hate but regarding DB/DC vs DT/O, I have these Dragonite @ exact same CP and close IVs. The DT/O one destroys everything.

Fair and square, the numbers are pretty obvious and I think your observation seems right. While DB/DC is more potion efficient and will last you longer into a tough gym, DT/O offers something few other attackers can: Grinding down any Blissey faster than anyone else while being tough enough to eat the quickmoves and agile enough to dodge the charges.

This kind of thing is more theorycraft vs real world play.

On a piece of Paper, Dragontail is wholly superior to Dragonbreath. It does more DPS and more EPS.

However, in the real world with dodging and fitting in moves, most people would say DB > DT

As for Charge Moves: In terms of Damage per energy, Outrage > Pulse > Claw > Beam > Hurricane

However when you look Damage Per Cycle
Claw > Outrage > Pulse > Hurricane > Beam

When you factor in Real World, typically DB/DC will kill the fastest, but occasionally DB/DP or DT/Outrage will kill faster. ((Usually in circumstances when the opponent dies right after the 2nd 2 bar charge move)

So for Rating Purposes for me:
A Sets
DB/DC
DT/Out
DB/Pulse

In another words, DB/DC is the gold standard but there are fights where DB/Pulse or DT/Out are better.
As such they belong as the other A movesets.

Definitely db/dc and dt/or are my top
dt/or are better to kill blissey and lick snorlax.

This kind of thing is more theorycraft vs real world play.

Yeah, let us replace hard facts by feelings and
anecdotical knowledge!
Has anybody who claims, a combination "hits like a truck" or "kills fastest" tryed this and one other moveset in a level 10 gym, taking the time for each of those 10 kills of the gym leader? I doubt it. Even this would just give a little evidence to only one specific matchup.

A new moveset just feels cool / weird / used to / unused / slow - this is not what a reliable estimation should be build upon.

Surprise: Theory craft knows timing and dodging too, and you can consider speed of cooldown into an estimation formula too. There are no holes in knowledge that need to be filled with feelings or anecdotical knowledge.

I hate to say to be cruel, but you are just wrong.

1st) Goal of the Attacker is entirely Subjective. No Theorycraft can fit goals that might be different. a Trainer who wants to win as fast as possible (RL time) is different from a Trainer who wants to win as potion efficiently as possible. You would have to have completely different Theorycrafts, but in Real World, those 2 goals change for me all the time. I have 305 Max Potions atm. Not too concerned with potions. When Im low I am.

2nd) You can't tell me you're a super genius with a photographic memory. That's the only way there isn't a difference between Theorycraft and Real World.

Dodging is Dependent on Defender's Move Speed. Since that varies, you would have to have a perfect memory to be able to remember every similuation of how many DB or DT fit inbetween a Confusion, or a Water Gun or a Firespin.

Let alone, you can't convince me that you are enough of a genius with a computer like brain to know 100% accurately that you can get 3 quicks in while defender's Hyper Beam is charging, or 2, or 1.

3rd) Lag Happens & people's reflexes are different & people's phones show the yellow flash different. None of these are taken into account in Theorycraft and all of these effect RL Dodging Patterns.

So yes, because there is no way to know thousands of combos + figure on the fly exact number of moves that fit in a cooldown + different trainer + reflexes/phone/lag capabilities... there is most definately a Difference between Theorycraft and RL Gameplay

1st) Goal of the Attacker is entirely Subjective. No Theorycraft can fit goals that might be different. a Trainer who wants to win as fast as possible (RL time) is different from a Trainer who wants to win as potion efficiently as possible. You would have to have completely different Theorycrafts, but in Real World, those 2 goals change for me all the time. I have 305 Max Potions atm. Not too concerned with potions. When Im low I am.

Theory-Craft is the way to tell you, which moveset is most potion efficient, and which is most time efficient. Gamepress will maybe sometimes give us one rating that has to fit all, but this is just a compromise. And this is not a fault of theory craft.

2nd) You can't tell me you're a super genius with a photographic memory. That's the only way there isn't a difference between Theorycraft and Real World.

I need not to. I can note things i cannot keep in head.

Dodging is Dependent on Defender's Move Speed. Since that varies, you would have to have a perfect memory to be able to remember every similuation of how many DB or DT fit inbetween a Confusion, or a Water Gun or a Firespin.

If i do not have exact knowledge, i can aproximate. I do not need this knowledge to tell you, that 0,6 sec cooldown makes easyer dodging than 0,8 secs.

Let alone, you can't convince me that you are enough of a genius with a computer like brain to know 100% accurately that you can get 3 quicks in while defender's Hyper Beam is charging, or 2, or 1.

I do not want to convince you. This can be usefull in actual battle, but here i vote for the sure side. I just attack once and wait for the yellow flash.

3rd) Lag Happens & people's reflexes are different & people's phones show the yellow flash different. None of these are taken into account in Theorycraft and all of these effect RL Dodging Patterns.

Neither can your anecdotical knowledge help you, when your reflexes or your connection fails.

So yes, because there is no way to know thousands of combos + figure on the fly exact number of moves that fit in a cooldown + different trainer + reflexes/phone/lag capabilities... there is most definately a Difference between Theorycraft and RL Gameplay

My table knows these 1000 combinations of moves. I have to look once after having evolved a specific mon, and then i decide how to name it, to keep it, to throw it away after used once.
Surely, your feeling about it gives you way better advice than theory craft.

I have to play my game in reality too. I use my theory background for strategical decisions (evolve another or boost legacy moveset.....)
In real life play, i have to react spontaniously to enviromental conditions too.
I need not do so, if it is a decision i can do on my desk on base of a good theory..

But this paragraph alone on Dodging Hyperbeam says you are not doing Theorycraft "I do not want to convince you. This can be usefull in actual battle, but here i vote for the sure side. I just attack once and wait for the yellow flash."

In theorycraft, many moves have plenty of time to attack twice. You would need to know these, and follow them.

In Real World, lots of players play like you and do "Better Safe than Sorry"

The funny part is you are drawing a distinction between Theorycraft and Real World by only attacking once.

I am not saying Theorycraft is useless btw. And that I don't look at DPS, EPS, Move Timing. I am saying that it's not perfect analog which ironically you even admit when you say "In real life play, i have to react spontaniously to enviromental conditions too"

Back to dragonite, Theorycraft says Dragontail is wholly superior to Dragon Breath. It does more EPS and More DPS. Yet, because of how people play, most would perfer Dragon Breath

Which is why you yourself wrote:
A (96-100%) DT/O
C (88-92%) DB/DC

Yet most people will prefer for dodging patters DB/DC

Back to dragonite, Theorycraft says Dragontail is wholly superior to Dragon Breath. It does more EPS and More DPS. Yet, because of how people play, most would perfer Dragon Breath
Which is why you yourself wrote:
A (96-100%) DT/O
C (88-92%) DB/DC
Yet most people will prefer for dodging patters DB/DC

You did not read or cite completely. You can read that it is a pure damage rating and that you can adjust this for speed.
I said, DB/DC can get +2 Rating for speed - 1 for fast DB, 1, for fast DC. So, both moves were A.
This is just a proposal for a evaluation. It remains a compromise, as players play differently.

I want to state once again: Theory craft is something for the desk;
Fast reaction and fast decisions are for actual gameplay. Both have their place.

At the moment, i am sitting at my desk and am backed up with all information i need and can give the best available information. I need not rely on feelings, emotions or anecdotes.

Have a nice weekend.

You and I are actually in agreement.

We are just speaking of what theorycraft and real world is different and you think I am insulting theorycraft.

I agree with you Theorycraft = Desk Work = Spread Sheet. Real; Word = adjusting Theorycraft for your playstyle and actual gameplay.

For me, Real World is more important, only because I have already done and accepted the Theorycraft/Deskwork and adjusted it as needed.

You and I are actually in agreement.

I am glad you see it the same way. It is quite hard to communicate only written (without body language and voice) and in a forign language (at least for me).

So my way of writing today was somehow offensive and quite risky - not the best way. I was just fed up with all this vague, unsharp, felt information given here, where hard facts are available. I think, with you i did not target for the right person to adress this.

All I can say for sure at this point is that Steel Wing is being underestimated on offense. It ain't the slow defensive animation that we've been used to seeing since last summer.

DB/DC way more fun to use ??

DB-DC and DT-Outrage are both amazing for offense. DT-Outrage amazing for defense. Other DB sets are great for attacking, just slightly lower than Dragon Claw. DT-Hurricane is also great for attacking, and good defensively. Steel Wing + Claw or Steel Wing + Pulse are also good defensively, the legacy movesets. I think Claw is better these days since it's a 3 bar move that the defender just spams. Steel Wing + Outrage is superior, however, to either Claw or Pulse.

Latest Content

Pokemon Go 8th Anniversary Celebration
2024-06-18

Goodra PvP IV Deep-Dive
2024-06-09

Pokemon Go: Content Update for June, 2024
2024-05-29

Cyndaquil Community Day Classic
2024-05-29

Goomy Community Day
2024-05-29

Shared Skies Go Battle League Update
2024-05-28

Slumbering Sands Event
2024-05-28

Stadium Sights
2024-05-28