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Machamp with legacy Karate Chop/Cross Chop

Does anyone have experience of using Machamp with KC/CC? How good is he against Blissey or Snorlax? Does he deserve stardust?

Asked by Ales8 years 1 month ago
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by noxify 8 years 1 month ago

He should be a great choice if you are a player that like to dodge a lot. KC charges energy really fast, while CC has very low cooldown. I still think it's a slightly worse moveset than C/DP, but by the looks of it, I think it should end up as the 2nd or 3rd best moveset for Machamp, possibly tied with KC/Submission. I haven't tested KC after the update but I'll give my 1674cp KC/S Machamp a try this afternoon.

Personally I would wait until I evolve C/DP (I got dual steel moves on two 98% Machops I evolved this weekend), but if Machop is rare for you or the level/IVs on your KC/CC is great, I'd take him to 30.

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Checking out a spreadsheet I had open, this seems to be the offensive rankings for Machamps movesets:
1. 100% Counter/Dynamic Punch
2. 92% Counter/Close Combat
3. 85% Counter/HeavySlam
4. 82% Bullet Punch/Dynamic Punch
5. 80% Karate Chop/Cross Chop
6. 79% Karate Chop/Stone Edge
7. 79% Karate Chop/Submission
8. 73% Bullet Punch/Close Combat

BP/CC, BP/S, BP/HS and BP/SE all do 67%-64% of the damage of C/DP to round off the list.

It's likely that the KC/CC and KC/S movesets could move up to 3rd highest output in cases of SE/Double SE.

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by Sebhes 8 years 1 month ago

Good move set. I'm using my old Machamp as prestigers versus Snorlax now. If you are good in dodging, this is probably the most viable move set out there.

Probably slightly worse than the new moveset set, but that's only based on what I read. No personal experience yet. Probably wait until Gamepress publish their findings.

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Regarding Cycle damage, Machamps movesets are distributed as follows:

C / DP (Max)
C / CC (-10%)
C / HS (-20%)
KC / S or CC (-25%)

The difference of KC legacy-movesets to the new Counter-movesets is huge.
Thus, I do not invest in my 2250CP-KC/S Machamp anymore, but i still use him until i have a new one, as it does a really good job against snorlax.

It is simple: Counter is the best move in game, Counter / Dynamic Punch with STAB is the best moveset in Game.

My metrics is cycle damage.

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Counter and Cross Chop are both great moves, and I don't think there's a huge difference between them. Counter has higher DPS while KC has higher EPS. The big difference is that Counter gets access to some awesome charge moves while KC does not.

KC/DP could have been a killer combo, considering how fast KC would charge up DP.

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Basically, all quick moves are great now. I have done quite a lot of circle damage calculations, resulting that dps is more (Factor 1,3) important than energy on a quick move.
I have got a table that weaves all quick moves with hyper beam and i can easy compare how good a quick attack is. I have done the same calculation with avalanche too, it does not change the relation of any quick attacks to each other very much.

Backed up with this information, i can say, that
(a) counter is the best quick move
(b) carate chop is a very good quick move and
(c) that bitween (a) and (b) is a cycle-damage-difference of 2%

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It's better than before, but damage-wise, it would be a weaker version of counter+dynamic punch. For me it's not worth the stardust to invest, invest your stardust on counter+DP or Close Combat with decent IV.

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