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Does it boil down to this?

Would this form of thinking be logical?

For a defender, CP is everything as it will get you into a higher slot in a gym and as such, achieve its purpose of staying there longer. Due to 1, IV and moveset do not really matter. A bad moveset or IV is far less important than being in the bottom slots. Due to 1 and 2, dragonite is the best gym defender, regardless of IV and moveset. Even a low IV dragonite will still have higher CP than a say nearly perfect snorlax. Due to 3, for gym defenders, just power up all your dragonites to the max and stick them there. For attackers, moveset is everything. IV is not important as you will not be powering them up to the maximum. CP is not important, as type advantage is more essential and having lower CP actually benefits the attacker more. Due to 5, gym attackers need not be dusted, and neither should one be overly concerned about IVs. Just evolve and hope for a good moveset.
Asked by zaraki_kenpachi8 years 6 months ago
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I don't think cp matters that much. I rarely see gyms attacked and not taken down completely. so it usually doesn't matter if you're at the top or bottom.

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IV can make as much as 300cp difference to overall CP though so it is important, especially as most people have the higher tier pokemon now. It comes down to how good you're dragonite or snorlaxs IVs are, and your level of course .

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From what I understand, training your attackers is beneficial if you will be attacking enemy gyms with them. Therefore, IVs are important for them. It's nice to have also have some lower level Pokemon for training gyms of your team. For these, IVs are unimportant. The article listed here shows how prestige is calculated when attacking and training gyms.

https://pkmngotrading.com/wiki/Gyms

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IVs are, for the most part, trophies. As an attacker it may in a few battles account for an extra potion or so here and there. Move sets account for the majority of the difference between a good and bad pokemon. The difference in dps and how they will perform in battle will vary widely based on moveset, IVs you need to break out a calculator to see the difference, its really that small. On spreadsheets and sims IVs seem to be moderately important assuming you arent comparing 0 ivs to 15 ivs. In the real world once you add type advantage and match ups, lag, dodge and game mechanics it really is laughable how little of a difference it makes.

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It depends on what your intent is.

If your intent is just to stay in a gym, then sure, obviously who has the pokemon with the highest cp is going to stay there longest, even if it's only a few minutes. But, remember, a gym full of solid pokemon stands a better chance of staying together as a whole. Therefore, if a gym can stay standing as a whole, then your specific position in it, does not matter as much.

Honestly, for attackers, the most crucial thing is potions and revives. Even 6 Raticates can take down a Dragonite. If you have the resources to keep your pokemon alive, I do not think ivs or moveset, or even what you are attacking with matters that much. Now if you are trying to do it strictly efficiently, then sure, you can get into movesets and type advantage, but ultimately if you have time and resources, then you can take any gym.

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Word of caution:
Before anyone starts powering up Raticates, remember the 99-second fight limit. ;)

I once tried taking down a Snorlax with Raticates after a lucky egg (free damage before transferring them), only to have the fight time out with the Snorlax still at 10% hp. What a waste of two minutes. :P

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First, I agree with you on IVs not being very important for attackers. I would still power up main attackers to a reasonable level, but no need to touch your secondary attackers.

The gym defense is where I disagree, but this comes down to what you are going for. If your sole purpose is to stick a worthless pokemon in a gym for as long as possible, you are correct. But those gyms are very weak gyms. I prefer to add pokemon to a gym that make it stronger. It doesn't matter as much if my pokemon is towards the bottom because if it is annoying enough, it can deter people right there, and a stronger gym will last longer. I always take gyms all the way out, the question is how long will it take me. Others are not the same as I am. I can see 3 gyms from my house and so many times the gyms have been at level 3-4 with my acid/blizz Tentacruel or confusion/ice beam Slowbro towards the bottom. These gyms get attacked and knocked down a level and then people leave them alone.

I would focus on building a strong, well-rounded gym. My pokemon that has been in a gym the longest is actually my 1860 cp Nidoqueen. The cps of the pokemon in that gym aren't great, but it never goes down more than a few spots. My Dragonite has been knocked out of the top spot of a level 10 gym 3 times in that same time. Build a good gym in a good location, don't just throw Dragonites in a gym...but every area is different.

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by Lanair 8 years 6 months ago

One thing that I rarely seen mentioned is time: I can't be the only person who doesn't have the patience (or time, especially during the workday) to stand around for 15 minutes to take out a single gym. Having higher CP attackers can help speed up gym battles, at least to a degree. For example, until recently all of my top attacking pokemon were vaporeons; they're quite strong and durable, but OMG it takes forever to kill anything with a vaporeon (except fire types). I powered up a couple of my vaporeons to max CP for my level and I noticed that shaved a few seconds off of each battle. I consider that worth the stardust investment.

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First, u need to reach max level.
END.

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1 - You're right.
2 - Well, I don't agree. A level 30 Dragonite, with 90% IV, can reach +/- 300 cp more than a 0% IV one. So, in the end, IV matters. About the moveset, it matters more than IV, how many times did you see the gym defender with "Battles Won: X", probably he could lost the battle if the moveset was garbage.
3 - Dragonite is one of the best defenders, no doubt, but a Snorlax with less CP can defeat an attacker that a Dragonite doesn't, and make the player stop attacking, cause he's gonna waste so many time and resources, that it's not gonna worth.
4 - It's a good strat, but it works better if your Dragonites have a good moveset, as I said before.
5 - Agreed, since you can dodge attacks, DEF and HP IV's doesn't really matters that much, but a good ATK IV is nice to have, since it can accelerate the process.
6 - Moveset > all, always.

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Some nice insight in the comments, thanks guys.

In my particular area where I live and commute, the high level gyms tend to have the same top few mons nearly every day (90+% of these are dragonites). The bottom ones tend to get knocked out in a short time (I suspect people in the area are not really concerned with taking down the gym fully but are 'testing' their attacking mons on the unfortunate bottom few, or could be time constraint as mentioned), but then the gym is eventually trained (likely by those who want to keep their mons on top and put more buffer in between) and new ones replace those gone.

The comment about a strong, well rounded gym is interesting. Are there any threads or resources on a good combination of mons & movesets to combine in such a gym? And what pokemon do you guys think could be a good anchor (bottom)?

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Dragonite heavy gyms make me happy, they get wiped easily. Lapras, dewgong, cloyster, pretty much anything with a frost attack makes quick work of dragonites. Dragonite gym is an easy gym.
Now if there are a few snorlax, exeggutor, slowbro, its not worth it, its so time consuming and resource heavy.
people like to attack with dragonites so anything with an Ice attack like slowbro with confusion ice beam or polywrath with bubble ice punch do way better than you would expect them to.

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