Attacker tier list
While I find the defender tier list more precise and accurate than ever, I find this attacker tier pretty bad.
Starmie Better attacker than Arcanine? Why so little respect for Arcanine?
Alakazam cannot be same tier as Dragonite since they do same damage and 'zam has 72 less stamina. Even if dodging everything, alakazam is worse than Dragonite and it is not close.
There is no reason to put Lapras in Tier 1,5 instead of Tier1. Similar stats as Vaporeon, good moveset, very usefull type
My personal list :
Tier 1
Snorlax, Dragonite, Vaporeon, Lapras
Tier 1,5
Alakazam, Gyarados, Exeggutor,
Arcanine (similar stats and moveset than Exeg, best counter to Lapras with vaporeon, good vs Exeg and Snorlax)
Rhydon (slow quick move and not the best for anything, vaporeon is better vs Snorlax)
Tier 2
Venusaur, Charizard, Cloyster, Jolteon (so usefull!)
Gengar, Golem,
Tier 2,5
Tangela (cannot be same tier as Venusaur with lower stats),
Slowbro (Water/Psy type is pretty bad for attacking plus low attack stat)
Flareon
Omastar (overrated as usual here, worse in every point to Golem for rock attacks and way worse than Vap)
Tier 3 :
Blastoise/Starmie, Victreebel/vileplume, Muk, Nido, Sandlash
Answers
I definitely agree that Lapras is a dominant attacker; in fact, to me he is more relevant on attack than defense, due to low CP. However I definitely think Alakazam is in Tier 1 with PC/P. There's something to be said for time to kill. Agree that Arcanine is way up there. My WG/HP Omastar is really, really good against fire types.
I have a 2452 CP Alakazam with PC/P but I sadly cannot say that I am happy with it. I keep powering it up to boost its miniscule HP but still find it fragile. A couple of Earthquakes from a Rhydon still drains substantial health even when properly dodged. Also, on the offense I find it hard with PC to manage to dodge fast quick moves (like Water Gun from Vaporeon). My impression is that PC locks down Alakazam a bit too long.
In comparison I have two level 31.5 Jolteons that also have HP on the lower side but here I can dodge close to any quick move and incur substantial damage to common opponents with Thunder or a couple of Thunderbolts (this is reinforced by the fact that I live in Vaporeon land and Jolteons are ideal to take out Vaporeons).
I am determined to keep trying with my PC/P Alakazam to find its greatness. Right now it is far from being a favorite.
My PC/P Alakazam is CP 2431, and I'm very happy with his gym performance. I only dodge charge moves, so maybe that makes a difference. If you're dodging every quick move, you're still taking 25% damage, and you're losing a lot of time that could be spent exploiting your high attack power.
My Alakazam can generally take out a Snorlax faster than any of my other attackers, but a single missed dodge on a charge move will put the outcome in doubt. A missed dodge on Hyperbeam or Earthquake, and it's all over. But then, if you miss a dodge on Hyperbeam, you probably deserve to lose.
Incidentally, my other Alakazam with Confusion/Psychic has been sitting in a gym collecting coins for about three weeks now.
I would argue all the glass cannons should be in a separate tier of their own?
I have several problems with your list. I haven't looked at the stats and only base this on personal experience. My biggest issue is where is Wigglytuff on this list? I own a WA/FB and WA/DC Charizard and I wouldn't consider him any lesser than either of my FF/FT or B/FB Arcanine. If anything they should be equals since both have their own favorable matchups. Maybe I'm overly biased towards Charizard like you are to Arcanine. I also don't understand why Blastoise is so disrespected in this game/community. It has such diverse movesets that even include ice moves if you needed an emergency Dragonite attacker.
I dont escpially like arcanine. I only Power one to lvl30 while i have a lvl36,5 Charizard. But he just better overall. Better stamina and usefull vs Lapras unlike Charizard.
I don't have much experience with Wigllytuff but she probably deserved a spot in this list before the nerf but now... i dont know.
True, but I would argue WA has its uses elsewhere. I especially enjoy using WA/DC as a Dragonite attacker since I would argue that's a poor man's Dragonite moveset. I actually really enjoy using both Pokemon, but would argue they're equals. But the math will probably prove me wrong. Wigglytuff after the update took quite a hit took quite a hit, but her HP allows her to survive most low level Snorlax and Dragonite fights which is more than most this list can say.
On a side note I did enjoy your list. How do you think if Gen 2 ever comes how your list would be impacted? I personally believe the meta changing Pokemon is Amorphous which would be the electric equivalent of Lapras.
On the list of emergency Dragonite attackers, Blastoise with Ice Beam comes in after Lapras (any moveset), Cloyster (any moveset), Dewgong (any moveset), Seadra with Blizzard, Jynx (Frost Breath or Ice Punch), Tentacruel with Blizzard, Poliwrath with Ice Punch, Golduck with Confusion/Ice Beam, Slowbro with Confusion/Ice Beam, Jolteon (any moveset), Magneton (any moveset) and then maybe tied with Golduck/Slowbro that have Water Gun/Ice Beam, and lower electrics like Raichu/Electabuzz.
As buggy as this game's been lately, I think we could use tier lists that reflect the current inevitability of lag during battle.
Charge moves like Hyper Beam, Solar Beam, Hydro Pump may not be great for defense when they can be dodged reliably, but they're the best defensive moves right now.
They've definitely been costing me a ton of resources!
Same here, I never miss a dodge but I'd say that I get the server lag about 50% of the time. For a glass canon attacker, that means a OS, followed by then endless switching-bug and losing all the energy
Until they fix the server lag, 1 bar moves are the best (and they make gengar/zam/starmie and other glass canon less relevant)
I think Lapras is fine as Tier 1.5 .
I disagree with your assessment of Lapras and Vaporeon having similar stats, 19 is a fairly sizable gap for Attack when comparing things as attackers. For neutral matchups, Frost Breath and Hydro Pump are roughly the same, but Water Gun's "True DPS" is 16 with EPS of 14, whereas Frost Breath only has "True DPS" of 13.58, and EPS 8.64 . Pretty sizable different in damage output.
Also, Lapras doesn't have much in the way of solid type advantages, outside of Dragonite (which may be really important in some people's gym community, but definitely not in mine). On defense, the ice typing only helps (relative to a pure water type) against other Ice. On offense. Dragonite is the only common Dragon defender. Not really any common flying defenders other than Dragonite (already covered) and maybe Charizard (bad matchup because of fire dual typing). Ice being super effective into grass is canceled by grass being super effective into water (Bug or Fire are better matchups). And Ice being super effective into Ground is typically going to be cancelled by Rock being super effective into Ice.
Agree:
1. Arcanine should rank higher;
2. Tangela and Omaster should rank 0.5 Tier lower
Disagree:
1. Lapras in Tier 1
Lapras on offense is best but only best at one thing: killing Dragonite. A specialist as such shouldn't make it to Tier 1 - Tier 1 is for elite generalists, who will perform better than specialists in most cases (say killing Snorlax better than Machamp).
2. Rhydon in Tier 1.5
He should be at most Tier 2.
Rhydon is best for only one defender: Magnetto, who is double-weak to ground. But who puts Magnetto often?
3. Alakazam in Tier 1.5
He should stay in Tier 1. Who says he does "the same damage as Dragonite"? He kills Machamp in 16 seconds, Venusaur in 10 and Gengar in 9. Can Dragonite do that? No. And some people (me included) value time most.
It seems like you're considering 0% who you actually see in gyms. You're considering vs. Machamp, Venusaur, and Gengar? I've literally seen about 3 of each of those total in gyms.
Rhydon - He's an amazing attacker vs. Snorlax, and he's solid vs. Dragonite / Gyarados w/o Hydro Pump, and surprisingly useful vs. Lapras (Stone Edge)
Tangela - Again, crazy. Should move him up. He is one of the best attackers vs. 2 of the most common gym defenders
I do see people putting these mons in my area.
"Rhydon is amazing at Snorlax" is debatable, but "surprisingly useful vs Lapras"? Really? Any Fire type, Electric type, even Exeggutor does it better. So you must have really underestimated Rhydon to let him get you "surprised".
Added: And you used Rhydon to beat Dragonite? Really?
Wow I actually pretty much completely agree.
Changes I'd make:
- Move Venusaur up to 1.5. Significantly better than Exeggutor in likely matchups vs. Vape/Rhydon, while Exeggutor will do better in neutral matchups like vs. Snorlax
- Move Tangela up to T2. See Venusaur above. Also agree he shouldn't be in same tier, but the sheer amount of use he'll get over Flareon/Omastar/Slowbro/etc. makes him very valuable
- Wigglytuff in T3 - Even with 1/2 CP he dominates Snorlax and is usable vs. almost every single top defender. Value as prestige champion can't be understated.
- Tentacruel needs to be in T3 - underrated with diverse moveset pool. Gets more use out of me than most of who you listed there already
