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Lapras Defensive Moveset

Regarding Lapras's defensive moveset, as long as it has Ice Shard does it really matter what charge move it has? Dragon Pulse misses out on STAB, but the top reasonable attackers into Lapras are Fire or Vaporeon, which Dragon typing makes up for since Ice is NVE. Just a thought, what do you guys think, and Gamepress?

Asked by Kevch19838 years 5 months ago

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Dragon Pulse is essentially equal to Ice Beam against Arcanine -- STAB + NVE = no STAB + normal damage, it's the same multiplier in Pokémon Go.

So for the most common attacker, dragon pulse is ok for a defending charge move. But for pretty much anything else (besides Vape) you're gonna want Ice Beam / Blizzard. Plus, dragon pulse is terrible as an attacking move, so there's less versatility.

Overall, Ice Shard / Dragon Pulse is a decent moveset for defense but far from desirable. Lapras' strength is his typing and bulk, so really any moveset has at least some value.

Your first paragraph basically just reiterated what I insinuated in my question.

Second, I am not asking about attacking, the title of this post is "Lapras Defensive Moveset".

I don't get your conclusion that it is "far from desirable" when you said that "Lapras' strenght is his typing and bulk". This implies that all movesets with Ice Shard, is great and it's really splitting hair to judge otherwise.

I don't get your conclusion that it is "far from desirable" when you said that "Lapras' strenght is his typing and bulk". This implies that all movesets with Ice Shard, is great and it's really splitting hair to judge otherwise.

Because in what situation would you want i.e.'desire' Dragon Pulse over Ice Beam or Blizzard? Sure it performs decently in comparison to the other 2 charge moves, but it's not something you'd ever want when Ice Beam is essentially the same move but with the "correct" typing. (same base damage, energy requirement, and only a 0.05s difference in cooldown).

The only situation Dragon Pulse performs better than Ice Beam is when a Pokemon has dual typing that both resist Ice (STAB and double resistance results in 1.25 x 0.64 = 0.8x damage), and the only Pokemon across Gen 1 and 2 that fill these criteria are Lapras, Dewgong and Cloyster, none of which you would use to attack into a Lapras anyway, nor would you use a Lapras to attack into them.

Dragon Pulse on Lapras is comparable to Hyper Beam on Dragonite or Earthquake on Snorlax, or Megahorn on Rhydon.

These moves are not bad per se, but when compared to these Pokemon's other 2 charge moves that have STAB, they are inferior in almost all cases, and even in the fringe situations where they do perform better, it's not by much.

Second, I am not asking about attacking, the title of this post is "Lapras Defensive Moveset".

Well not everyone is fortunate to have multiple Laprases for different roles. For 99.99% of players that are in this situation, having a Pokemon that is useful at both is better than having a Pokemon that is only good at one role. No need to be snarky.

The most common and probably best attackers into Lapras are Arcanine and Vaporeon, which both resist ICE moves, but Dragon move deals regular damage. So you end up dealing equal damage to them regardless of ICE Beam or Dragon Pulse. That was the basis for my question.

"Dragon Pulse on Lapras is comparable to Hyper Beam on Dragonite or Earthquake on Snorlax, or Megahorn on Rhydon."

I don't see how you draw the parallel here as all those listed are 1 bar charge moves that deal LESS damage to their respective common attackers. If you are talking about off typing, then yes, but that's about it.

I am simply saying that regardless of the charge move, they all perform equally well in 90% of the cases. That is dealing equal damage to Lapras' "counters" such as Arcanine and Vaporeon.

Most people are lucky to even have one Lapras so they wouldn't even be concerned with this question.

Yeah, Dragon Pulse deals equal damage to Ice Beam against Pokemon that are supposedly strong against Lapras.

So if you had the choice, why would you choose that move when it doesn't perform better against the supposed counter to Lapras (Arcanine) and performs worse against neutral Pokemon?

I don't see how you draw the parallel here

I stated it earlier. All 4 of those moves are suboptimal but still decent in comparison to the Pokemon's other two moves that have STAB.

As in, if you have these Pokemon and they have these charge moves, you should be content and take what you're given.

And I said "comparable", I didn't say the situations were exactly the same, so what use is there in being nitpicky.

You listed Vaporeon as an attacker into Lapras, that's all I'm going to say.

For Defense: Dragon Pulse isn't that much worse than Ice Beam but it's worse.

Your correct on Vaperon and Fire types being basically the same.

But you forgot that Electrics are also a good choice for Lapras (Electric gets SE, though get no defensive bonus) and DP definitely is worse for Electrics.

You would also be worse against most Neutral Attackers like Snorlax or Grass (SE vs SE)

Good point on Electric, Grass and Normal.

I ran some simulations on PokeBattler using a high level Lapras as defender.

Electric (Jolteon) basically doesn't have enough bulk even when dodging all it's left with less than 1/3 HP. For all Ice Shar / any charge move
Snorlax (lick/hyp) came out the same with no discernible differences between the charge moves.
Grass is where Ice charge moves do a little bit better, but grass takes a lot of damage also!

If anything, there is a bigger difference between Blizzard and Ice Beam, than Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse. In any case it's super close but a tiny bit worse. Maybe a rating of "A-" according to Gamepress's guide.

Cool, makes me feel better about my lone Lapras with Shard / Pulse. He's only 2456 CP, but fun to put in gyms nonetheless.

Just because Jolteon doesn't have a lot of bulk doesn't mean I don't use it to attack into Lapras often.

Even if it's is near dead, it's still quicker than using Vaperon or Arcanine and for me, Speed of Kill is a very underrated plan. (with rare exceptions when prestiging I also dont bother dodging Quick Moves for Same reason)

I don't understand where you are getting your "Similuation" though since for Snorlax Dragonpulse and Icebeam both require same energy use. And yet Ice Beam does 22 DPS vs Dragon Pulse 18.

I think the same way as you also, but with the dodge bug, it makes it a total pain since even if you got the dodge off, you have to swap the mon out unless you can knock the Lapras out before it even fires a charge move which is doubtful with it's 400+ HP (at least my lvl 30s are over 400HP on defense)...This is where blizzard can hurt a lot more since I seem to get the dodge bug often...

I've powered up my DP Lapras to over 30 now since it has much higher CP than my other ones...

Like you notice, most of the damage is from Ice Shard anyways so for me, since my DP Lapras has much higher CP than the others, I'll probably keep powering it up as long as I have candies for it (getting lucky with hatches to just get a FB/B one now).

In a gym, no one really cares whether you have a Blizzard or Ice Beam or Dragon Pulse I think. All that matters in defense is higher CP so I would just power it up if you can get it to a level that it can sit in gyms longer...

I personally always attack into Lapras with Arcanine since Electrics can miss a dodge or lag out and you will be knocked out /endless loop with dodge bug...I'd guess most people use the same mon.

Yes, Blizzard and DPulse are close as long as the quick move is Ice Shard, and even Frost Breath on defense would probably put Lapras at around tier 1.5.

I still wish Niantic would replace Dragon Pulse with a water type charge move. It would be much more interesting not knowing if you needed to be careful with your Arcanine going up against a Lapras.

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