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Question about IVs and how they work in gyms

Does anyone actually understand how IVs work when it comes to gym battles? Specifically, I'm wondering....does the "Attack" number only come into play when you're attacking a gym, and the "defense" stat when you're defending a gym?
For example - this is the reason I ask - would a 65% Snorlax with a line of 0/15/15 be "perfect" as a gym defender?

Asked by Merlok7078 years 2 months ago

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Answers

Yes.

IVs affect how the stats of a pokemon are calculated, and in turn the pokemon's CP. Every pokemon has base stats for ATK, DEF, and STAM. Those base stats are then increased based on the corresponding IV values for ATK, DEF, and STAM/HP.

CP is calculated using the pokemon's base stats + the IV values for each stat. So, the short answer to your question is no.

Since ATK is weighted more heavily in the CP determination, a 0-15-15 IV Snorlax's damage output will be lower than a 15-15-0, and its maximum possible CP will also be lower, also meaning it will not receive as high a position in gyms.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. What I'm really trying to do is understand how to compare some of my Pokemon for the top tier gym defenders (Snorlax, Dragonite).

I understand that the IVs contribute to the CP, but I'm trying to take CP out of the equation.

So using my example...if you had a 2500CP Snorlax with 0/15/15, is he equal at gym defense as a 2500CP Snorlax with perfect 15/15/15? I know the 100% Snorlax is better and has more CP potential, but I mean specifically at 2500CP are they equal at gym defense (and gym defense only).

I would think he would be just as hard to beat yes

Thanks.

To explain my thinking...I catch a ton of Snorlax (at least 1 a day on average), but most are low IV. I do have a few very high IV ones that are almost maxed out, but I have enough candy to power up some of the medium IV ones in order to have more quality gym defenders.

Since I'm going to use them exclusively as gym defenders, I'm trying to understand the IVs. It sounds like I was correct in assuming that if you're ONLY going to use a Pokemon as a gym defender, you don't have to worry about the first (attack) stat, assuming the CP is already high.

1 snorlax a day?? where tf do you live :O

Some places they aren't nearly as rare as they should be. I see far more Snorlax than quite a few "common" mons like machop, vulpix, etc.

How do you catch a snorlax per day? What kind of cheats are you using, and where can I access them?

IVs just add that number to whatever the pokemons current stats are. In your example a Snorlax at max level would have 190 attack, 205 defense and 335 stamina with 15 added to the def and stamina. If it had an attack iv of 15 it would be 205, 205, 335. When it comes to defending though, CP comes in to play and the higher the CP the higher you are on the ladder, especially if you're in a high traffic area. Attack affects CP quite highly and in turn is important when selecting a defending pokemon. So your answer is no. You have much more leeway when it comes to attackers as opposed to defenders. Attackers can do what you're saying even with a 15-0-0 because they are controlled by you and can dodge.

Thanks. But I'm trying to take CP out of the equation. What I'm trying to understand is, in the actual battle, does your defending Pokemon's attack stat matter (other than CP)?

So if you have a 2500CP Snorlax with 0/15/15, is he equal as a gym defender (and only gym defender) as a 15/15/15 Snorlax also with 2500CP?

I have no idea man... are you wanting to power up a 0/15/15 snorlax? How can we possibly know how they would compare? The differences are so small to start with.

The defending pokemon's Attack stat comes into play when calculating the damage incurred when the defending pokemon hits back at the attacking pokemon, similarly as when calculating the damage incurred on the defending pokemon (the damage calculation formula used in both cases contains an Attack/Defense element).

The IV stats per se have a minor impact on the damage calculation. What matters is Net stat (the sum of Base stat and IV stat) for each of Attack and Defense (and Stamina).

The attack stat affects how much damage a pokemon deals. The Defense stat affects how much damage a pokemon receives. The stamina stat calculates HP.

Depending on the base stats, the difference between a 0 and 15 IV might be proportionally higher. Snorlax has incredibly high base stamina, so 15/15/15 and 15/15/0 IVs are proportionally closer than 15/15/15 and 0/15/15.

The attack stat is weighted in the CP calculation formula. So between two defenders of the same species, having a higher attack will usually raise the CP more than the other IVs, even if having both defense and stamina higher might sometimes make the pokemon a little harder to beat.

The answer to your question is no. The attack stat comes into play for gym defenders, because those with higher attack stats, all else being equal, will hit attackers harder than those with a low attack stat.

The defense stat affects how much damage is sustained from each opposing hit, whether for an attacker or a defender. So, an attacker with a lower defense stat (all else being equal) will sustain more damage from the same hits as an attacker with a higher defense stat.

The HP stat determines how much damage can be survived. Equal Pokemon with higher defense stats will survive longer, because although they have the same HP, they will take less damage from each hit.

Consider the example of comparing Dewgong with Poliwrath. Their defense and HP base stats are almost identical, but Poliwrath has a much higher attack stat. Will they be equal as gym defenders? No, because the Poliwrath will hit much harder. It is the same principal, though on a much smaller scale, when comparing two pokemon that are identical except for their attack IV.

I think the short answer to "would a 65% Snorlax with a line of 0/15/15 be "perfect" as a gym defender?" is 'no, not as good a defender as a Snorlax with an Attack IV >0 with all else being equal'.

I say this based on the Damage Mechanics write-up on this site. Where it says:
Damage = Floor(½∗Power(Atk/Def)∗STAB∗Effective)+1
...where Atk = (Base Attack + Attack IV)Cpm, and Def = (Base Defense + Defense IV)*Cpm

I would think Damage calcs the same for attacker and defender. All else being equal for the attacker and defender, a higher attack IV for a gym defender would cause the Att/Def ratio to be higher, and thus each move would do more damage to the Attacking mon.

In your what-if example of 15/15/15 versus 0/15/15 asked of a few prior responders....a defending Snorlax with a 15 attack IV would have an overall Attack stats of 190 + 15 = 205; so its Atk is 205* Cpm. Whereas a defending Snorlax with a 0 Attack IV would have an overall Attack stats of 190 + 0 = 190; so its Atk in that formula is 190* Cpm. Meaning about 8% * Cpm more damage for each move to an attacking mon; and as example using a Level 30 Snorlax (level 30 CPM for any mon is .713), does 8% * .713 = 5.7% more damage per move with 15 Attack IV versus 0 attack IV and all else being equal.

....or I could have totally misunderstood the formulas and explanations this site provided and completely bother up my analysis and explanation :)

"I would think Damage calcs the same for attacker and defender. " - I think that might be with one exception, for the defender might not be divided by 2. Thus will lead to the common conception that a defender has the stamina doubled (result of attacker dealing /2 damage as compared to an identical defender one).

Disregarding gym placement based on CP, your 0/15/15 Snorlax would have perfect 'tankiness' and survive just as well as a 15/15/15 Snorlax of the same level. The only difference is that it would deal slightly less damage against attackers.

The fact that the 0/15/15 will deal slightly less damage to attackers means that it will NOT survive just as well as a 15/15/15, because the attacker will be able to deliver more hits before fainting.

As far as I've heard there is only 10% difference between 0% iv's and 100% Iv's.

It depends on base stats and specific IVs. Snorlax has huge base stamina, so its Stm IV proportionally will have less effect than its Atk and Def IVs. On the other hand, Alakazam has sky high base attack and wimpy base Stamina, so its Stm and Def IVs have a larger proportional impact than its Atk IV.

They all got you wrong. I understand your question since I had the same question. Based on my calculations, 0/15/15 is about 10% stronger than 15/15/15 snorlax because
1. It has a higher level when the CP is the same so it's CPM is higher.
2. It will have a higher overall defense and health although it's attack is slightly lower. Since snorlax is not famous for its attack, it's tank mess is higher too.

Although it's attack is lower, given its longer survive time, plus higher CPM, it should deal more overall damages to the attacker. So, yes, your guess is right.

Furthermore, my calculation shows 0/0/0 IV snorlax deals the most damage because it's higher level.

I think you are correct, but must be restate clearly that this is for same/very close CP Snorlax. So applies only if you are not planning to power up the pokemon, an extremely rare scenario with a Snorlax.

Nah. You didn't get it. What is fun defending a gym besides the coin and dust? Make the attacker suffer, take them more time and force them to use more potion. What is more fun than that? Give them surprise. They say, It usually take me 40 seconds to beat a 2500 CP snorlax , why this one is so much tougher? Because it is a maxed out 0/0/0 IV snorlax. Haha.

The original question was "does the "Attack" number only come into play when you're attacking a gym, and the "defense" stat when you're defending a gym?"

The answer is "no."

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