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TM's recently

I don't know if it's just me, but does it seem charge tms are a lot less valuable. At least strictly raid wise, as the meta largely (seemingly) is comprised of event evolution moves ( ex: mm metagross) event raid moves (AS Moltres), or long time dominant Pokemon that never really needed many tms to get the moves (dragonite/machamp, rayquaza). It hasn't seemed like a lot of the big raid/gym relevant attackers have changed to incur the need for mass tm expense for those reasons. (in my opinion due to the relative lack of new major meta Pokemon outside the CD/Raids day moves, though gengar with lick is a slight exception) Now of course for PvP, tms are a lot more used.

Until mamoswine and the move pool expansion, I hadn't had to use any charge tms since mewtwos shadow ball legacy announcement (even my best lick gengar stayed on psychic all that time), and found I'd gotten an additional 40 ctms in that time.

If there's any major meta Pokemon (prior to move pool expansion/Mamoswine) that aren't long standing in general relevance in the same way as machamp/dragonite, or event move Pokemon that you guys can think off, please mention them, because I can't really think of many (really only weavile and electivire). I haven't really had a need of tms raid/gym wise and wondering if I'm not alone there

Asked by MetagrossMaxis6 years 1 month ago

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I think your sentiment about most of the top-tier meta not requiring charge TMs is largely true (for the simple reason that this small group of Pokémon have either been around long enough that we've already used heaps of TMs to give them their required moves, or they were blessed with exclusive moves which are all guaranteed to be obtained if the player happens to be available during THEIR time of availability). Some outliers might be a small handful of winners that emerged in the recent movepool addition; even if you obtain a second move for it, Grass Knot Roserade's 4-move charge-pool still requires players to get lucky with their TMs to get the attacks they want.

Personally, I'm low on my charge TM stash because I like to have fun with them and experiment with Pokémon outside of that top-tier group *gasp*. My Frenzy Plant Venusaur doesn't NEED Sludge Bomb as his second move for any reason in particular, but I still would really like it. Unfortuantely, he's been going back and forth between Solar Beam and Petal Blizzard for a ridiculous amount of time now, and at the rate charge TMs have been dropping, it's been a pretty big bummer.

In fact, speaking from my own experience, most Pokémon on my Charge TM list are those that have been given an exclusive or legacy move, and I'm picking and choosing between one of their other vanilla-moves to give them as a second attack, which means I'm always up against at least a 50% chance at TM-disappointment. The only one that's been nice to me has been my Dragon Claw Dragonite; he managed to get Outrage as soon as I unlocked the second attack. But the others haven't been so kind, and I've got a long line of them that need TM-tweaking.

The movepool additions definitely were great addittions to use CTM's on, prior to that I probably never would have given roserade a second move or even evolved one (one bar solarbeam….eh)

Similar story to that Outrage on DC dragonite, I have my machamp a second move right after the expanse, it was rockslide. Then again on Nub's CD, gave my best one a second move, and evolved, the resulting mamoswine had both avalanche and AP. There is an element of RNG with TMs, but its good to know my sentiments arent just exclusive

Hell no! Out of 10 Mamoswines I evolved to after CD, a whopping 0 of them ended up with Avalanche as their charge move.

I've also yet to TM my remaining Roserades to grass knot because the last one took 8 of my CTMs. I've also need to get Sky Attack on 3 of my Honchkrows.

I refuse to get a second move for them (that's a crap ton of stardust I'd have to drop). If you have the stardust to get a second move on all of your pokes, then you may not need CTMs as much, but trust me, there are a lot of players that need CTMs more than ever. There's like at least one thread a day on reddit complaining about this issue.

I was speaking about prior to the move expansion and mamoswine, after it came out I knew a lot of people were spending a lot of TM's on the big pigmammoth.

Im not personally someone who's sank the amount of dust in to get the second CM on each pokemon, mostly as I feel few need them for raids, but CTM's are RNG related, I remember when trying to get my mewtwo onto shadow ball before the legacy'ing, I dumped 15 into one, and the second got it first TM.

Bingo. I have 1 CTM right now, holding off until I direly need it for a long-term raid boss. But I'm in your same Mamoswine boat: I evolved two for PVP with the legacy move, but I evolved 7 outside CD hours and also zero of them got Avalanche. I had one 100% that I did break the stardust bank and add a second move for, so it did get Avalanche when I added the second move (used one CTM to get Bulldoze for the other). I have to decide what's more valuable to me: 50k dust or CTMs when it comes to the others... Or hopefully I'll still do a few trades and end up with some luckies that get Avalanche upon evolution.

I would have agreed with you 3 months ago. However, now we have PvP and a bunch more pokemon with more than 3 charge moves. CTMs have become increasingly valuable to me, to the point that I will buy a 75k second charge move without blinking if it saves me 1 CTM. I find it easier to generate that 75k dust than get a CTM anyway.

I said specifically for raids, PvP is a separate matter.

Thing is, you can't evaluate the importance of an item based solely on just one of the applications it has ingame.
Would be kind of the same as arguing that stardust isn't really that much important because in GL PVP you can get a lot of easy and ready-to-use candidates just by catching them and/or evolving them. Of course, that's a foolish thing to say.

TMs are important and valuable because they have a big impact on one aspect of the game. Simple as that. Moreso if you are unlucky players on your first tries trying to change a move in a 4-attack pool.

I must not have read the post thoroughly and missed it, but Bellick said well. You can't evaluate their worth based on just the raids part of the game, just like any other resource can't be evaluated by arbitrarily narrowing down their use cases.

I might be inclined to agree if I didn't still have 5 lick gengars that don't want to obtain shadow ball...
I have 2 lick gengars with shadow ball and no shadow claw gengars, so yes there is a small need for more L|SB Gengars in my case. Honestly though, Gengar, kyogre, groudon, and TTar are pretty much the only non CD mons from the legacy set which aren't guaranteed one of their best moves via a CD or something of that sort. Shadow Ball mewtwo also comes to mind as a former CTM sink, but you can't exactly TM to that anymore so it's out of the question.

Well, groudon and kyogre have the potential for precipice blades/origin pulse days in the future

That doesn't change the fact that they are still best in class for their types right now, and that if you want to use them as such, you may very well have to use CTM's...

That is a fair point, though then the issue comes down to their usage. Groudon in particular has almost always lagged when grounds super effective to the same level as other types and not in clear weather (for reference see dialga), much like fire moltres and raikou and poison roserade, they are the best of type, but not critical to have.