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Why SW/Dragon Claw on Dragonite isn't rated A?

I'd like to know if someone can explain to me why SW/DC on Dragonite isn't rated A, since Dragon Claw dps value is superior than Dragon Pulse? Also, Dragon Claw comes out so fast that it's pretty hard to dodge.

Asked by nathancorsini8 years 4 months ago
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Answers

I think they have an explanation on why they ranked the movesets the way they did for Dragonite (and some other top tier pokemon) now.

Edit: this is what the pokemon page for dragoniste says about its defensive moveset rankings:

Defensive Moves Explanation
Steel Wing is used incredibly well by the gym defense AI, and it is easily superior to Dragon Breath despite lack of STAB. It also hits super-effectively into fairy and rock-types, both of which Dragonite is weak to.
Dragon Pulse puts out a ton of STAB damage over a long period of time, which is desirable on defense. (More time spent using a charge move on defense is generally better.) Because of this, Dragon Pulse is superior to the higher DPS but shorter duration Dragon Claw on defense.
Hyper Beam is generally superior to Dragon Claw as well, and even helps in a couple matchups.
Similar to Body Slam, Dragon Claw's damage window is early in its animation, rendering it more difficult to consistently dodge. However, it is not nearly as punishing if the attacker fails to dodge.

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by kkmmdd 8 years 4 months ago

Part of it is DPS being an imperfect metric for move effectiveness, part of it is defensive AI.

Dragon Claw does 35 damage per hit, Dragon Pulse does 65 per hit. Let's say DC takes 1 second, DP takes 2 seconds (I think it's closer to .9s/2.1s, but close enough, still gives DC higher DPS). Compare what happens over the course of 2 seconds. With Dragon Pulse, you just get the charge attack and hit 65. With Dragon Claw, you have 1 second of charge attack doing 35, and 1 second of fast attack. You're not going to do 30 damage in that 1 second of fast attack. That's the part about DPS being a somewhat imperfect metric.

Furthermore, defensive gym AI takes an extra 2 seconds between fast attacks. How much extra damage a DC Dragonite can do with that extra 1 second of fast attack is less on defense than on offence, so the disparity is even greater. Typically one doesn't factor in speed of attack on defense, since gym AI doesn't dodge. This could be an exception because the speed makes it hard to dodge (like body slam), but if anything that's a push with the benefit of being less exposed it provides on offense.

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DPS and defensive DPS are 2 different things. Defenders have increased cooldowns on their attack, and increasing it by a linear amount means that moves with shorter cooldown suffer more DPS loss than moves with longer cooldown.

Also DPS of only the charge move isn't the only stat that you should be looking at, because you cannot use charge moves on their own.

What you should be looking at is average DPS from a mix of quick and charge moves, and SW/DP does more damage over an extended period of time than SW/DC does, assuming no dodging.

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by pipjay 8 years 4 months ago

Damage per second (DPS) is the measurement when you are attacking and spamming moves as fast as possible.

The gym defender AI has an additional 1.5-2.5s cooldown in between moves (random, averages to 2s). Defensive damage per second (D_DPS) is an approximation that adds in an extra 2s for defender moves.

Dragon Claw has a higher DPS, but after adding in the extra time Dragon Pulse has a higher D_DPS.

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by GS1 8 years 4 months ago

I actually don't like facing SW/DC when battling. The first DC usually surprises me and sometimes takes me off my rhythm. I dodge everything and maximize attacks so timing and rhythm is everything to me. I think SW/DC is underrated, so I talked myself recently into maxing out my SW/DC Dragonite.

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