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Why Dragon Pulse is better for defense?

Hey all. I have a question. Dragon Pulse and Dragon Claw spend the same energy per use (50). The infos are:

Dragon Pulse: 22.57 DPS with STAB (3.6s cooldown);
Dragon Claw: 27.34 DPS with STAB (1.6s cooldown).

Since DC do more damage and both charge moves uses the same energy, why SW/DP is better than SW/DC for defense? because Dragon Claw have a faster cooldown? if yes, whats the minimal cooldown to a decent use by AI?. Faster attacks can be a anti-dodge and thats important a lot, its not?. Even when i face a Dragon with DC in a gym i feel annoying.

Asked by TheFocke8 years 9 months ago
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Answers

Yeah if you consider the dodge animation DC might be the best, i think DP works better with the gym AI.
DPS is calculated on 'cycles' (fast move + all the charge of the charged moves/time) so DC has a higher DPS when attacking. On defense cooldown is increased so moves with a long cooldown performs better (since gym AI still has to wait like 2 seconds)

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The DPS u are talking about is the True DPS, right? i writed just the charge move DPS. If we consider more things than only numbers, we have something like that:

Dragon Claw: considering dodge (every decent player dodges) it can hit MORE easily than DP, so the Dragon have a bigger chance to full hit with the charge move.

Dragon Pulse: used better by the AI and do 2d/s more, but have a very small chance to full hit since everyone will dodge easily.

So...considering more than only numbers and statistical analysis we have a different points.

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We actually agree :) DC is better if you account for people more likely to be good at dodging and DP being better in terms of teoretical DPS

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by pipjay 8 years 9 months ago

Dragon Pulse DPS = 65 damage / 3.6s * 1.25 STAB = 22.56 d/s
Dragon Claw DPS = 35 damage / 1.6s * 1.25 STAB = 27.34 d/s

But that is just when attacking. Defense adds in more time in between attacks.

Dragon Pulse D_DPS = 65 damage / (2s + 3.6s) * 1.25 STAB = 14.51 d/s
Dragon Claw D_DPS = 35 damage / (2s + 1.6s) * 1.25 STAB = 12.15 d/s

Dragon Pulse has a higher defensive damage per second, and the moveset rankings are mostly just based on raw numbers, not taking into account other factors like type advantages or how hard a move is to dodge.

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Thanks, now i got it. But if i would make a "real world factors" rank, i think SW/DC is more usefull. DP do just 2 d/s more but the dodge chances are so bigger than DC. Whats the DPS when dodged?.

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Pipjay nails the numbers. However you should also consider that despite DC has higher attacking DPS, it does not necessarily mean it deals higher damage. It only deals 35 damage compared to DP which deals 65 before the damage formula is applied. DPS metric of charged moves is only accurate if you only spam charged attacks (which is not the case obviously). However DC can be considered because it is harder to dodge but as previously stated it only deals 35 damage which is not punishing.

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Dragon Pulse D_DPS = 65 damage / (2s + 3.6s) * 1.25 STAB = 14.51 d/s
Dragon Claw D_DPS = 35 damage / (2s + 1.6s) * 1.25 STAB = 12.15 d/s

Only ~2 d/s more in comparison to a hard dodge...in real factors, which one u think is more usefull?.

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In real life siuation, Imho I'm more relieved when the defender is using DC. DP, albeit it is easier to dodge, because there are so many factors (i.e. Human error/limitation, Phone lag, Crappy Internet etc.), perfect dodging is not always attained. DP puts in more pressure, and when it hits a huge chunk of health is lost. Unlike DC, which is like water pulse but less spammable. Sometimes I don't even bother dodging it.

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Agreed. But remember this chunk of health lost is only ~2d/s more than DC. Besides the more longer the game goes Niantic tend to fix more bugs/lag and the players will get better in dodges and fix their internet and skill errors. I will start to consider SW/DC as the most usefull in real life. Thanks!.

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by pipjay 8 years 9 months ago

Also consider though that the less time your pokemon spends using its charge attack, the more time it spends using its fast attack, which has significantly less D_DPS.

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Yeah. But if he spends less time with the charge attack, he can do a charge attack + one fast attack at the same time that would be spended to use only one slow charge attack. Lets take a look considering the cooldown times SW = 1.5s (its 1.33s but AI cooldown is 1.5s), DP = 3.6+2=5.6s and DC = 1.6+2=3.6s. Considering the energy is ready (we know both charge attacks need 50 energy) and AI will use the charge attack then a fast attack:

DP then SW = 5.6+1.5 = 7.1s total;
DC then two SW = 3.6+1.5+1.5 = 6.6s total.

So here we can see that at the same time the AI use a DP and a single SW could be used a DC and a couple of SW. Thats wrong?.

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That's correct but over those time periods the DP variant will deal 96.25 damage (65x1.25) + 15, while the DC one will deal 73.75 (35x1.25) + 15 + 15.

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Thanks for answering. So DP still better by a little. How can i calculate the damage when the attack is dodged? cuz it still hurt.

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Dodge reduces damage by 75%. It doesn't change anything because if you reduce both DPS values by 75% then the relative difference is still the same.

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I think you can crunch the numbers all you want, but they will never tell you some absolute truth about which is good as it always comes down to personal preferences.
For instance I dodge pretty much everything, also the quick moves. Because of that, I have no trouble dodging every charge moves as well (there goes "harder to dodge"). And what I can tell from my personal experience is, that whenever the defender has DC I'm relieved - it does a puny amount of damage when dodged. On the other hand DP is more of a pain in the ass, as even though I dodge it every time it still deals a lot of damage.
So just saying, when I attack a gym I hope the defender has claw instead of pulse.

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