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Why do people think dodging help glass cannons more?

Dodging effectively quadruples your HP at the cost of a few seconds of your DPS.

Those that gain the most, then would be those with the most effective HP while those that pay the greatest cost is those with the highest DPS

Asked by vuviper8 years 5 months ago

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I think you are correct mathematically, and perhaps in terms of potion usage, but it is important for a pokemon to have enough HP to survive a battle. Quadrupling the effective HP of a Snorlax will have less influence on its practical chance of winning a battle than quadrupling the effective HP of an Alakazam.

When taking on a gym though you want each attacker to be able to take on as many defenders as possible

Yes, but there are more criteria that are important. You want to kill Pokémon within 100 sec and maybe for some people revives are scarce.
As an extreme case take Chansey. Dodging will get you the most in absolute terms but she won't be able to kill Pokémon within the time limit.

Exactly. For many players nowadays the problem really isn't taking down the gyms (even more so with any low level gym). What you want instead is just to be as time efficient as possible and that is why Pokémon with high attack stat are often preferred to a slower attacker (like Snorlax).

Alakazam will kill faster while dodging than a Snorlax who's not dodging.

I beated 2x 2900 dragonite with my 2700 snorlax.
I beated wigglytuff + 2600 snorlax + 3000 dragonite.
Sometimes i beat 4 pokemons in row if they are vaps and exeggutors.

Practical chance to win fight?
Its more about how many pokemons Snorlax will take down before faint.

I only dodge charge moves.

I think it is because you only have 6 mons per battle. They need to survive to take down the gym.

Not necessary. The full clearance bonus was reduced from 1,500/500 worth three fights to 1,000/1,000 worth only a single fight. It is inefficient to try a full clearance of a high-level gym, better use only your strongest mons to bash the 3 - 4 weakest defenders repeatedly.

Interesting point. I personally would like to take out the whole gym for the satisfaction/fun factor

Sure, it's more challenging and kind of satisfaction to attack a Lvl 10 gym with six mons and actually using only five of them, but when you're standing in the freezing cold because you want your 10 coins it's tempting to f* the full clearance bonus and instead of kicking two fat Snorlaxes in the guts for seemingly endless 40 seconds just get the same 1,000 points much faster by beating the CP 700 Hypno at the bottom.

I gave up dodging anything but charge moves (2 or 1 bar). It's not time efficient for me and potions/revives seem to be flooding my bag. I think i's worth damaging the heavy hits to allow the attacker to get an extra charge move in before fainting, but for me that's the only reason I dodge.

This is exactly how I feel. I'm not gonna bother dodging unless it's a hyper beam, solar beam, etc. Half the time I don't even look at the screen, just tap and and hold the screen occasionally. Just wanna get it over with.

Prestiging on the other hand...much more fun.

Yes prestiging is where there's more skill required. Dropping a gym is just time consuming rather than challenging - a high cp Lapras is as challenging as it gets. Yes Snorlax takes an age, but with a decent Rhydon it's just time.

Well its like u dont like the game man.. U dont like to use your best mons that u filter along months and ser them kicking ass?
Or testing low cps u may power up in future?
Its the best part... You like to use your weak ones to ... Prestige?
Cmon...

Excluding the impact of the difference between quick moves and charge moves, the gain in HP is a percentage and the loss in DPS is a percentage. Both being constant percentages. Thus, dodging helps everyone EQUALLY, by a constant percentage.

This of course is thrown off by differences in Quick moves and charge moves. i.e. a 50 energy charge move with massive DPS for its cast will benefit more from dodging compared to a similar 100 energy charge move because you won't waste energy on it. An extremely higher damage charge move wastes less energy than a slightly more powerful charge move because you're sacrificing mostly quick attacks rather than charge attacks when dodging.

As to why Glass Cannons benefit more from dodging? Simply put - time is important. If I can kill 3 pokemon with a glass cannon in 20 seconds with dodging before swapping him out at 1HP, but can kill 4 pokemon with a sturdier attacker in 35 seconds - the latter does more work but the former is more efficient. Without dodging though, the former kills nothing while the latter gets a kill - so the latter is better. Hence dodging benefits glass cannons more.

I'm fine with everything you said except "Thus, dodging helps everyone EQUALLY, by a constant percentage"

A constant percentage does not an equal effect on each pokemon.

I'd say glass cannons make dodging more important, but would not say it benefits them more.

Also nor sure using a glass canon like Alakazam is going to save you that much more time then using a sturdier attacker like Vaporeon

I enjoy dodging otherwise you're just taping your phone which requires no skill. You can also hone your skill and then be as efficient as possible when training at a friendly gym.

I don't dodge Chansey though not even her charge attack.