Which one would take more damage?
I noticed that with the recent buff, Cloyster now has one of the highest DEF stats in the game. I was wondering how that translates to the amount of damage taken in battle compared to a Lapras, which has a much higher HP stat but lower DEF stat. Let's say a Cloyster and a Lapras were both the same LVL, which one would take more damage from a Steel Wing Dragonite when dodging.
Answers
Hi. This is a very interresting question. From my own experience using a lvl 25 Lapras (2083cp) and a lvl 27 Cloyster (1853cp) the Cloyster works wonders when dodging right, and doesn't feel much more fragile than the Lapras despite having less than half of her HP.
Recently it has led to my Lapras getting a well deserved break from the daily Dragonite slaying, and now only steps up to the big occasions. Cloysters potion-efficiency simply makes him my prime choice as an ice-attacker in this meta, and I'm even thinking of powering him up to lvl 30 to make him even stronger.
I'd love to see some calculations to see if my experience holds up to the cold hard facts, or if I'm just Cloyster-biased :D
Well I'm not too unfamiliar with your situation. My Max Potions count 165 at the moment and the number is rising. For most of the pokemon I use on attack, they get a Hyper Potion when they're near dead.
Still, in gyms where there's just the occational 3000cp dragonite at the very end, I'd end up attacking with a half-dead Lapras every other time. For those situations, using 1-2 regular potions to get my FB/B Cloyster back into action feels a lot cheaper. If there's 2 Dragonites, a Lapras seems the better choice, provided you have one ;) For everyone who doesn't - Cloyster does the job better than Dewgong ever did.
Later edit: trying to simulate with Alakazam I realized it is not updated to the last changes (did not allowed me to select CP> 1813 for Ala) so below results are not true at all for "new" Cloyster :(.
But it was another battle simulation link several days ago I was not able to find, maybe someone else has it and share it again?
try this one:
http://pokevolver.com/pokemon-go/battle-simulator/mr-mime
Frost breath. blizzard in all cases for attackers
1. Cloyster Cp 1600 (around 2/3 of max CP) (resulted in 78 Hp) vs. 2500 SW/DC, dodging charge moves => cloyster wins with 1/3 HP left, so able to take down 1/2 of a 2nd Dragonite - 37 seconds
2. same, without dodging at all Dragonite won with less than 10% of its HP left
3. Lapras Cp 1900 (around 2/3 of max CP) (resulted 175 HP). Lpaars won the battle with a bit more than 50% of HP left, so able to take down the 2nd Dragonite - 44 seconds
4. same, without dodging at all; Lapras won with around 1/3 helt left (Dragonite had DC filled up, if fired, Lapras might have lost).
The above results are similar with just looking at the division between products of Def and HP of the two mons (as told by Bruno Berzel) => Lapras being able to take down about 50% more than Cloyster => Lapras gets proportionally less damage.But Cloyster is around 20% faster (37 seconds vs, 44 seconds).
They don't show you a time, I just used a timer on my phone.
I think, to test the hypothesis of "effective health", the clearest strategy would be to go to the gym and let your pkm be beaten down without dodging or fighting back. The time your pkm survives is proportional to effective health.
To compare effective health of two or more pkm, you would take two of same level (30 p.ex) and approximately same ivs (sta, def) and all of them without special resistance to the opponents attacks.
Optimally, you take more than one try with each of your pokemon.
Yes, but in the real approach mentioned by you one need to have the mons :). Those simulation sites help you a lot for theoretical discussions :). But I cannot find the updated one. I remember I accessed it, it was not that nice as the one above but I remember that it was mentioned it is an updated one. And google does not return it in first page of results :(.
This simulator does give you an answer to another question. It is more about
"damage done before a pkm faints with / without dodging"
what is quite different from "tankiness" / "effective health" / "damage taken before a pkm faints"
Both questions are perfectly reasonable, but the difference should be understood.
Take a look at snorlax and chansey. Both have a quite high "effective health" [60k Snorlax / 88k Chansey], so it takes long time to kill one of them with a constant damage. For example a pkm that can kill snorlax in 60 seconds would need 88 seconds for chansey (both same level, comparable defensive IVs)
But Snorlax has a way higher attacking stat and so it deals much more damage until it faints. This would be the result of simulation, and not a comparison of pure "tankiness" / "effective health"
