Whats the best charge move in the game?
Nothing too important just want to know whats the best.
Answers
Actually taking into account Damage done per energy and time spent, the results are as follows:
1 Bar charge move: Future sight (Highest damage output in less time), as a note, Solar beam is amongst the worst ones.
2 Bar charge Move: Sky Attack and Foul Play are tied for the best ratio, again as side note, Outrage is amongst the worse ones.
3 Bar charge moves: Dragon claw, closely followed by Leaf blade and X-Scizor are the best ones.
In terms of damage/(Time*Energy) efficiency 3 Bar > 2 Bar > 1 Bar, however depending on your dodge habits, you might prefer 1 bar moves even if they do less damage, also this doesn't take the attack stat of the user into account, which greatly influences the result.
If I only had 1 vote I would probably vote Outrage. Close second would be Shadow Ball but Gengar is too frail. The one bars are great but they do not cover as much ground as Outrage/Shadow Ball.
Here are some really good ones (by no means exhaustive) and with the 'best' user in my opinion:
1 Bars:
Solar Beam (Exeggutor)
Overheat (Moltres, Entei, Flareon)
Hyper Beam is also very strong but there is no SE type coverage and there is no 'proper' user (strongest thing is Usaring which is not all that great)
2 Bars:
Outrage (Dragonite)
Shadow Ball (Gengar)
Dynamic Punch (Machamp)
Outrage is actually inferior to Shadow Ball.
Think about it. Shadow Ball deals 100 dmg in 3 seconds. Outrage does 110 dmg in 3.9s. So Outrage needs 0.9s more to deal 10 more damage, which is translated into 11.11 DPS, which is lower than some high DPS quick attack. Therefore, one Shadow Ball + some quick attack > one Outrage, that's even without considering energy gain.
But I prefer Dynamic Punch over Shadow Ball. The active time (the time when damage actually occurs) of Shadow Ball is 2.4s while DP is only 1.2s. This is a huge difference in real battle.
BTW, Wild Charge is strictly superior to Dynamic Punch but its active time is 1.7s, still later than DP.
I don't know but I'd rather have Outrage on Dragonite which can afford to use the lethargic cast time rather than have Shadow Ball on Gengar who loses 50% HP on Twister.
If you isolate the move irrespective of what the 'best user' of it is, then yes, Shadow Ball is best no doubt. With M2 we also have a new top user of Shadow ball despite lacking stab, so things may change.
I got all the mons I need or want and relevant ones either maxed out or powered up way past 30. I've used all sorts of mons to attack to see what they are like.
I got dozens of dragonites. All with DC, HU, and O. TBH, Outrage is my least favorite out of those three Dragonite charge moves. First of all, defending gyms don't matter so Outrage became less important in defending gyms. Old gym Outrage slowed attackers down. HU is one of the optimal CM in a solo raid - Machamp boss. DC is the best gym sweeping CM due to dodging and potion efficiency. So that leaves Outrage as best in what?? Maybe for Mewtwo boss with FB? That's about it.
Hurricane Dragonite is not that great in machamp raid, Zam and Espeon, maybe even confusion eggy out DPS a hurricane dragonite.
Remember hurricane is only 110 power. Can be beaten with 5 Zams and a lugia but not with 5 dragonite and a lugia (unless they're like close to maxed but i have a L31 DT/H and didn't really like it vs machamp)
Agree with you in DC for gym sweeping at lower motivation rounds but Outrage nukes defending Dnites, and out DPSs DC during the first motivation round where you need all the damage.
Dude, I've soloed Machamps with 2.5 dragonites DT/HU. Can you do that with anything else??
And you need to watch DC vs O funkysho videos, son. With no dodging O edges out DC slightly but with dodging DC is the clear winner for gym sweeping. I've been gym sweeping from the old gym system with DB/DC.
And I don't even want to go there about DPS. Higher straight DPS don't mean squat in real battle situations.
And with respect to gym sweeping are you comparing DT/DC vs DT/OR or DB DC and DT/OR? Again, a big distinction there. I will go check out the funkysho video in question.
To answer the OP question though, will you say Dragon Claw is the best move in the game then? Since it beats outrage? If your answer is yes then I concede.
Comparing DB/DC to DT/O. The question what is the best charge move is very vague. Each CM are available on certain mons and not on others. Solar Beam is powerful but the best mom that has SB is probably Exeggutor which doesn't have a great base attack stat. So, to answer the OP's question I would have to say the best CM has to be on the best attack mon currently, and that's Dragonite. When Mewtwo becomes available globally we will have to revisit this question. So if Dragonite is currently the best attacker then that narrows down the CMs to DC, O, HU, HB, and DP. Dragonite I believe is rarely the best counter to any raid boss. The best use of Dragonite in a raid is probably to solo Machamp. And HU is the best CM for that purpose. Is soloing Machamp high up in importance in the meta? Probably not. So what is the best use for a Dragonite as an optimal choice? Attacking gyms. Dragonite can sweep an entire gym by itself better than any attacker including Tyranitar especially in the current gym system. And what's the best CM on a Dragonite to sweep gyms? DRAGON CLAW.
I can also say Stone Edge could be another option as the best CM for its importance and relevance in the current meta. Golem and Tyranitars with SE were optimal counters to the legendary birds and Entei. Tyranitar with B/SE is probably the second best gym attacker in the game. And as bad as gym defenders are in the new system, SE hits fast and hard on unsuspecting attackers.
So, IMO until Mewtwo is available I would say the two best CMs are DC because of Dragonite, and SE because of Tyranitar and Golem, and a defender that have SE.
I like to see or read about anyone that soloed a Machamp with 2.5 Lugias. Yes, Lugia is tanky but survivability is not the threat from Machamp solo. It's the clock. Lugia doesn't have a great attack stat so I'm highly suspect that 2.5 Lugias can solo a Machamp even if it's SE into Machamp.
Mewtwo isn't out worldwide yet so it doesn't count. I'm sure it would crush soloing machamp.
Moves with bars, ordered from the optimal ones to suboptimal ones:
1: Overheat, Solar Beam, Blizzard and Gunk Shot, Hyper Beam and Hydro Pump
2 bars: Shadow Ball, Outrage, Wild Charge and Grass Knot and Power Whip, Dynamic Punch and Avalanche, Thunderbolt, Foul Play, Dazzling Gleam, Ice Beam, (etc.)
3: Leaf Blade, Crunch, Ice Punch, (etc.)
My top 5:
Crunch - Tyranitar
Body Slam - Snorlax
Hydro Pump - Vaporeon
Dazzling Gleam - Blissey
Dynamic Punch - Machamp
Just outside...
Thunderbolt - Jolteon
Dragon Claw - Dragonite
Outrage - Dragonite would be top 5 if it weren't so slow. For me, Legendary Raids have truly exposed how slow it really is.
