What the possibility of “One mon type” limits COULD mean for the gym meta (LONG)
To start with, we do not have enough information to be sure that the change will go live anytime soon or ever. We are not sure if other changes/limits will accompany it. But for fun let’s assume that the code will be implemented to limit certain Pokes to one, partly because limiting by type would create laughably bad gyms. Let’s also assume that CP as the defining cutoff for staying in a gym stays the same.
This would certainly create a greater diversity.
There are a few Pokes who for now would still see quite a bit of action due to their CP superiority, specifically:
3670 through 3157
Those are (7) Tyranitar, Dragonite Snorlax, Rhydon, Gyarados, Blissey, and Vaporeon. Now, before folks start crying about the “double weakness” crap, note that having to take a Jolteon into a gym to fight a Gyarados isn’t a path to greatness with a 6 attacker limit. He gets kind of beat up by a good defending Gyarados and isn’t very strong in general to attack other mons with. The really bad thing before was that you could take out multiple Gyarados with the same one. Now what are you going to do? Take what is left of him into Vape? Lol. The same goes for Dragonite to a lesser extent. While Lapras is a great counter to Dragonite he isn’t so strong or leaving most of those fights so intact that he is taking out another strong mon from that list. So unlike before “the big 7” will be more formidable than ever except in gyms where there were all Snorlax and Blisseys of course.
The real fun and strategy kicks in when the next defenders are added. Although these would not be bound to the same CP clusters as those above let’s list some fun ones and the strategies that may be employed when putting some of the other strong defenders in gyms.
Lapras: Terrific typing. Hard to form an angle of attack that does not leave your attacker somewhat damaged. However, if he has all ice or all water moves, he can be attacked effectively with Tyranitar B/SE(Ice) or Dragon moves Dragonite (water) and have an attacker that can still wield death elsewhere. But the first run he is no Bueno.
Donophan-Good typing and balanced stats with a wide range of moves. No ground fast move though which would make him much better. He CAN have fighting moves which will dissuade the Blissey/Tyranitar generalist attackers from cruising through him.
Espeon- Good moves and demands a counter that may not mesh into the above attackers. The exception would be Tyranitar but he isn’t common. He does great damage.
Exeggutor- Confusion is a nasty quick move. Any counter outside of the most optimal ones will take a beating. However most of those will still be bruised up enough to have limited effectiveness into other mons.
Scizor- Scizor would be fun but if he sits next to an Egg it allows someone to string fire attackers. Outside of that he has a TON of resistances.
Steelix- Probably should be avoided. This would allow a Vape to go at Steelix and still beat up on a Tyranitar or Rhydon. Not to mention Vape is strong enough to hurt other defenders even without a ton of advantages.
Poliwrath- Some very interesting defending movesets that cover his weaknesses. At least until his moves are known he could be tough in his gym.
Slowbro/Slowking: Same as above.
There are many more but once you are out of the top 20 in CP there isn’t much to discuss. Most of those mons base stats are too poor to mount much of any defense no matter what counter and get ruined by generalists that can attack other mons.
In regards to attackers strong generalists like Dragonites and Tyranitars will be more vital to your damage per HP meter when attacking gyms.. Especially once movesets on some of the Pokes are known. Specialists who cannot be parlayed into attacking other mons very effectively will be less useful. I don't see how you would even clear a creatively stacked gym in one run without an attacking Blissey.
I think these limits will be fun if other changes that we have all discussed ad nausem are implemented partially or other ways. By itself it will not change all that much but IF folks concentrate on checking the movesets of what is already in gyms and the weaknesses of already placed mons they could create some very fun traps or tough combinations. It will all be dictated by how much scouting and creativity each person puts into placing their defender.
Answers
Proposed lineup without my P/DG Blissey:
- Hp Vape - > Rhydon + Dophan/Espeon
- Db/DC - > Lapras/Gya + Dragonite
- DT/Hu -> Vap + Exe/Gya
- Tyra -> Blissey + 1/2 Sorlax
- C/CC Machamp - Tyra + 1/2 Snorlax
- Exe -> SlowDudes/Gya
Will be harder then current average gym but I think is doable :).
Probably I will have to take quite a bit over lvl 30 Machamp and Exe for every extra HP, maybe power up more the Dragonites. I will like this modification :).
We have talked about that and it is one of the things I allude to in my "other changes will need to be made" statement.
How is really debatable. If there is no need for high IVs or the resulting CP eggs will become much more of a waste of time than they already are. It would make that aspect of the game and the goal of earning high IV pokes ended. This would unarguably take some fun out of the game. Also, something has to set the defenders apart. All other suggestions for arrangement/cutting have limitations that will be evident not long after their implementation, or will make no lasting change at all. It will likely take a myriad of changes but if nothing makes a defender have built in advantages over another it will hurt the desirability of good mons and could dull the game down enough to kill it eventually.
If I was a gym shaver, I think I'd shave whatever was most convenient. Especially if I wasn't also a spoofer. Gym shaving isn't much work, so I don't thin they are as concerned with things like this. Even with the current system, I've often seen gym shavers shave the last spot and replace it with a pokemon going in the last spot.
I see your point, also, it depends of the gym situation in each area. Here, a free spot in a blue gym will be filled in matters of minutes or couple hours. 1k or 10k to prestige it doesn't matter, free spot are very rare. Anyways, I prefer to see them shavers more likely at the bottom, so they get shaved in return.
Something I thought about is if PvP is implemented with the gym rework and you can control your gym defender, think of the impossibility of beating a Blissey at all if all someone has to do is just dodge all attacks...
In 100 secs, nothing will beat a very strong Blissey if I can take only 25% damage...the gym will never fall.
I'm not sure I understand what reference to the Big 7" of mine you mean exactly. You seem to be saying what i said in that without multiples of them they are often good attackers.
Steelix is one who may improve from changed gym mechanics or other things we have discussed. Right now a weakness to water is a serious problem for a lot of mons. Lower base stats (besides the less effective defensive ones) make this worse than some others. My only point is that multiple water weak defenders should be avoided in any gym.
I actually like the one-per-gym idea as defenders, provided some rebalancing took place.
This would encourage much more active gyms, with everyone angling to be "first in" to drop Blissey/Dragonite/Tyranitar. Plus, it would also have the benefit of taking the steam out of cheaters who use multiple accounts to take out the #10 slot so they can drop one in that will be top 2-3, hiding behind mons from people that actually spent the time to take down the gym in the first place.
Very true. Which is why I noted generalists and tanks like Blissey increasing in value above. I definitely should have mentioned Snorlax too. It's worth noting that the sacrifice in time using the tanks versus the optimal attackers can be viewed as a defensive win too depending on ones value of their time.
