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Togekiss Dragon Hidden Power

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How good is Togekiss with Dragon Hidden Power? Is it worth maximizing it?

Asked by DiegoMacario6 years 2 months ago
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I mean its a 96% lucky togekiss, i'd max that even if it didnt have dragon hidden power.

Could be good against palkia with double dragon moves, and cloudy weather is seemingly very common.

As a dragon counter, its DPS is about 18 outside of weather boost, compared to the 26 which rayquaza has, but Togekiss has hands down the highest TDO of anything that hits palkia for super effective damage. Around three times that or rayquaza, I'd say it fits for a fantastic dragon counter.

In cloudy weather, charge beam gardevoir jumps above togekiss, but only by .3 DPS, both at 20.4 and 20.7 respectively, but togekiss still out TDO's gardevoir, and confusion gardevoir always lags behind togekiss. I'd say take the togekiss, cheaper, better TDO for not much DPS loss in weather boost, while its the best of the fairies outside boost.

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For raids, DPS is what matters, not TDO. Togekiss's survivability just means that you can spend a long time dealing subpar damage.

I don't know what simulations you are looking at, but I just looked at a few, and for DPS against Palkia, Togekiss lags behind such middling counters as Gardevoir with either confusion or charge beam, DT/O Gyarados, DB/O Latias, and even DT/DP Alolan Exeggutor. That's not even including the top-tier counters (Rayquaza, Dragonite, Salamence, Latios). The Togekiss may be a good dragon counter for PvP and gym battling, but not for raids.

With that said, I agree that a 96% lucky Togekiss is worth powering up, and dragon HP is useful.

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Did you set the hidden power type to dragon? Because otherwise, it will be below gardevoir as its considering normal type hidden power, it doesnt display every possible type hidden power could potentially be. If you go into mods, you can change the type of hidden power for togekiss to dragon, and it will display as such.
I agree its not the absolute best counter to palkia, but in a situation where the dragons are taking super effective damage from a high attack stat pokemon, they may not be able to preform at the levels they theoretically could, similar to SC gengar against mewtwo. They take so much damage so fast.

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Actually, in answer to your your comment and the one from peach below, I was looking at Time to Win in Pokebattler simulations. TTW is primarily based on DPS, but takes into account lost energy from fainted pokemon. In the list of fastest Palkia counters, Togekiss with hidden power - dragon ranked below the mons I mentioned, though barely below C/DG Gardevoir and DB/O Gyarados.

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"For raids, DPS is what matters, not TDO. Togekiss's survivability just means that you can spend a long time dealing subpar damage."
That's not always the case. Sometimes you need a tanky Pokémon that has more tdo so you make sure you won't faint. That way you will deal more damage.

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Agree. See pre-rebalance haryama, and the whole reason tyranitar is a top tier attacker despite having much lower DPS than gengar and SB mewtwo

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To be fair, Tyranitar and pre-balance Hariyama are/were way closer in terms of DPS to SB Mewtwo/Gengar and Machamp respectively than Togekiss is to any of the top tier dragons, hence why they are/were continually listed as top attackers.

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Not when you are talking about a pokemon with a time to win of 530 seconds (L40 Rayquaza with best friend bonus vs. Palkia) vs. a pokemon with a TTW of 712 seconds (L40 Togekiss, same conditions). Two trainers can defeat Palkia with a team of Rayquazas, but not with a team of Togekisses.

Try trioing Cresselia with Gengars, and then try doing it with SC/SS Giratinas. Even though the Giratinas have higher TDO, they cannot successfully beat the Cresselia, while the Gengars do it easily.

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by Sebhes 6 years 2 months ago

I've got one as well but after the recent gym nerf, I lost my enthusiasm unfortunately.

I consider it a proper dragon counter. Dont expect first world DPS numbers, but it actually lasts longer than normal dragon counters.

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You could argue a lucky 96% Togekiss would be worth maxing regardless of hidden power type.

It's hands down the bulkiest counter to a double dragon Palkia with the highest TDO, though it's much slower than other dragons and a little slower than Gardevoir.

I don't know how Togekiss fares in PvP, but seeing as yours is already above the Ultra League cap you'd may as well max it if you want to give it a whirl in Master League. Hidden Power looks to be one of the slower fast moves in PvP and Dazzling Gleam is slow to charge there as well. Still, it's respectably bulky and could make dragons sweat in Master League if you can clear out any Metagross first.

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So against palkia, gardevoir still out DPS's a dragon hidden power togekiss? I just checked wth the DPT TDO spreadsheet with dragon hidden power, and togekiss is about .1 DPS above gardevoir with significantly more TDO

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Don't know where your information is coming from, the attached numbers are what I'm getting. Gardevoir > Togekiss remains unchanged with other variables toggled as well ("swap discount", cloudy weather, windy weather).

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Weird. For some reason Gardevoir's stats on yours are off, everything else is identical to mine. Did you mess with Gardevoir's stats?

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No. dont even know how to alter stats. Could there be some error on my end that caused other discrepancies?

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Customize -> Species

Your guess is as good as mine. Everything else is identical, Gardevoir seems to be the only outlier. I can't see the parameters you have entered.

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by Peach 6 years 2 months ago

I wanted to counter the cancerious giratina AnD ended up evolving a togekiss. Turned out to have hidden ice. I think its as good as dragon hp.
What u guys think? I m gonna keep it at this cp i think.

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Dragon, ice, dark, ghost hidden power all preform identically against giratina (no fairy hidden power, it doesnt exist)

I'd say keep it there if its next power up takes it to 2500+, that ice also hits flygon double super effective, and lugia as well. I'd say ie hidden power is probably one of the best you could hope for on a togekiss. Dark and ghost also would be great, though metagross isnt match up togekiss wants to be in

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Hidden Power has the same base damage and move parameters regardless of type. Dragon and ice are equally effective against Giratina. Most of the available dragon-types suffer a double weakness to ice which arguably makes ice better to have than dragon in a general sense, though it's only neutral against Palkia so you lose some effectiveness there.

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I won't bring it into raids since it's lvl 26. I was shocked when I saw ice HP because I think that's the best HP I could get. I got lucky at something for once ^_^

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I think you'll get more fun out of it in PvP over raids anyway. I wouldn't expect to see Palkia in Ultra League since Giratina runs rampant and can smoke it handily, well before it can even charge up a Draco Meteor.

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Togekiss isn't worth powering up regardless of moveset, lucky, or IV. It's a "meh" pokemon and a better dex filler than anything else.

That being said, it's yours. You can do whatever you want with it. If it was 100% I'd max it out simply because it's fun. But it has no practical use in my opinion. There's just better options.

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