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I have one fast TM, and im considering using it to TM my Venasaur, 98 IV's, frensy plant/rasor leaf to get vine whip, would it be worth using now, but possibly not be of my future use or save the TM for future use to get a dragontail/blizzard miloitic for a rayqyaza return

Asked by MetagrossMaxis7 years ago
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Absolutely use it on that especially with Kyogre in the mix.

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So whats the differense between the 2 moves? both have almost the same DPS, why is vine whip better, just out of curiosity

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Vine Whip has higher EPS and lower cooldown so you'll be able to launch Frenzy Plant more frequently.

Also, Dragon Tail/Blizzard Milotic to counter Rayquaza? You have a habit of favoring off the wall, suboptimal counters.

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I dont have a lot of potions, I need tanks.

(and tell that to Aggron being the best counter to rayqyaza in terms of total damade)

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And also the lowest DPS. Meanwhile Articuno is the research legendary this month, has insignificantly slightly less TDO, and much higher DPS. Edit: I will say this is one of the few instances where Aggron isn't an outright terrible choice (as long as it has DT/SE), though it's better to only slot one or two in the last slot if you have nothing better.

Protip: Get more damage off as quickly as possible. It helps scoring extra damage balls, meaning extra raid rewards because they're tied together, meaning potentially extra potions.

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I try, but dont have the dust to power up my legendaries, dropped a heck of a lot on venasaur and a Ttar (before the event was announced) now im pumping everything into zapdos, next will be ice bird becase we all know Groudon's up next

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We actually don't know what's next, they didn't do Ho-Oh R2 immediately after Lugia R2. If I were you, I'd save your resources until it's actually announced what's coming next. As was advised in your earlier topic I'd focus on getting at least one Kyogre so you can use that if Groudon gets announced.

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Of course, but if you're hurting for resources it would be smarter to save them until we know what is coming next so they can be used accordingly.

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In every instance?

Because that is a false statement both have their uses. for example aggron can be one of the best pokemon to take down a rayquaza with, same eith the fairies machamp cant deal with, by machamp is best against normal, rock, steel and ice types, b=one is not better than the other, they are just more usefull in different situations

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"aggron can be one of the best pokemon to take down a rayquaza with."

I'm afraid this is simply not true. Aggron functions as a tanky anchor for your team if you're low on revives/potions, but even with DT/SE, it is nowhere close to being one of the best Mons to take on Rayquaza. Its survivability is high, but DPS is low, resulting in the raid taking longer (and risking timing out if too many people are using Aggron in a small group) and fewer premier balls/item bundles rewarded. In terms of counters (assuming best movesets), Dragonite, Salamence, Rayquaza, Latios/Latias, Jynx, Articuno, Lapras, Walrein, Golem, Cloyster, Tyranitar, and of course Mewtwo are all better options than Aggron against Ray (and Articuno/Lapras are also plenty tanky themselves).

In short, Aggron is an ok choice if you're lower level, lack better counters, and don't have potions/revives to spare. Apart from that, Aggron is never a good suggestion for any legendary raid, Rayquaza included.

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If you continue to play regularly, you'll reach a point where you have enough Fast TMs that you can use them with impunity. Further, except for Mew, they always work - you get the move you want.

Charged TMs are more valuable, partly because they come up less often, and partly because they don't always work. I'm currently in the middle of a Seed Bomb/Dragon Pulse/SB/DP/SB streak trying to get my stronger Alolan Exeggutor to Solar Beam for Kyogre raids, I'm down to one CTM, and the raids are going to run out soon.

But fast ones, use them liberally if you raid enough to replace them.

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by hkn 7 years ago

If you have only one Fast TM, then:
1. Save it for Dragonite, Machamp, Tyranitar, Blissey (if defence is relevant in your area) or legendaries.
2. Raid more and get more fast TMs.

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Already used it on Venasaur, I only have 1 Nite, Ttar, counter champ, and have a zenhead blissey

I try to raid, but none ever show up XD

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Aim for 1* and 2* raids then. I tend to score at least one or two fast TMs per week.
....and MAYBE one charge per month.

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I know, but theres no tier 1/2's I ever see, they are always t3/4/5's im hoping to do some t1/2's, becayse croc and marsh during the event

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Dont have the 'mon for it, ive tried, can only handle piloswine and jynx, haven't tried gengar though

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Soloing Piloswine is a good thing to do. Gen 4 will give us Mamoswine, and unless they give it a really crappy moveset, it will be at least equal to and probably better than Articuno.

Three weeks ago, on a lark, I soloed a Piloswine to use up yesterday's free raid pass. Caught a 100%, and now I'm stoked for Gen 4, looking forward to having a perfect Mamoswine.

Right now, Sharpedo shouldn't be that bad, as long as you can do damage it should go down fast. Vaporeon is solid, but held back by a very fast quick attack that doesn't integrate well into gym defense.

Build up a team of strong Exeggutors and start raiding those two, you'll get items, including TMs, as well as dust and XP. And the eggys will serve you down the line, too, fighting water types (like Kyogre, for example) as well as Rock and Ground pokemon.

And in terms of raiding, try to hook up with a raid group. If you see a group doing a raid, ask to join. If they have already started, wait around and ask afterwards if they have a raid group, how does it work, can you join, etc. It will change the way you play the game - I know once I hooked up with one, it was totally different.

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Currently Sharpedo can be soloed with pretty much anything you throw at it, it's even possible to kill it with level 15 fighting pokemon. Vaporeon and Starmie are moderately challenging but much easier with clear weather. For Machamp, get a bunch of high level Eevees, walk them to Espeons and learn to dodge.

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What did you solo Jynx with? Machamp and Gengar are generally easier than Jynx. Of course, you still have to build teams for them, consider their moves and dodge well. Surely you have at least some of the following:

1. Alazakam for Machamp and FB Gengar. Confusion + Future Sight is best, but other moves are also viable.
2. Espeon for Machamp and FB Gengar. Confusion + Future Sight is best, but other moves are also viable.
3. Dragonite with Dragon Tail + Hurricane for Machamp, Dragon Tail + Outrage for Gengar.
4. Gardevoir with Confusion + Dazzling Gleam for Machamp, Confusion + Shadow Ball for Gengar.
5. Tyranitar with Bite + Crunch for Gengar (must dodge FB).
6. Metagross with Zen Headbutt + Psychic for HS Machamp and Sludge Gengar.
7. Exeggutor with Extrasensory + Psychic is strictly inferior to Alakazam and Espeon against Machamp (as well as FB Gengar) but still viable at level 30.
8. Houndoom with Snarl + Foul Play for Gengar (must dodge FB).

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If you're finding yourself needing another grass-type to counter Kyogre, then I would absolutely TM razor leaf to vine whip (higher EPS and quicker animation time), as FP Venusaur is a very relevant counter.

As for potential counters for Rayquaza's return, I personally wouldn't invest anything until we have an official announcement of when it's returning. On top of that, I wouldn't spare the resources on Milotic. If you're looking for tanky-ish Ray counters, Articuno, Walrein, and Lapras will get the job done much better. Also, if Niantic does a repeat of the fire and ice event from last year, then I'd strongly suggest chasing down high level/weather boosted Spheals, evolving them, and using them as Ray counters over Milotic.

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Here's what I don't understand. You're on a site dedicated to helping trainers play smarter. I know I've relied on the guides and analysis (coupled with my own understanding of the /local/ meta...which includes way more variety than the Big 4 normal) a lot, and it's helped be a better trainer. But, you constantly dismiss the advice given to you. Your most helpful reply was "well, I don't have the resources (dust, mon, whatever) for that." Great. So what do you have? Use that to your advantage with your current capabilities. Read through the guides. There's a whole thing about best Atk (non-legendary) that includes future-proofing. There's ways to compare what you do have to best-in-class.

I understand you only started playing a few months ago, and don't have access to a barrage of Raikou or a whole load of Rayquaza. Instead, see what you have that compares. There's a reason I named my (lvl 40 15/6/15) Jolteon BudgetRaikou and my (lvl 40 15/8/13) Gyarados BudgetKyogre. I only have one of the first and two of the second, and neither really have great IVs. I've invested the stardust I get (which I understand is a limiting factor for you - mine is pokeballs, as my house gets 16 mediocre spawns/hr) into pushing my few solid mon further and further. And...if you don't have a very strong front line, put some depth in your bench. Your mon will get better, you'll get better as a trainer, and what you are able to accomplish will grow exponentially.

The advice here (both post and board) is well-meant. We can't make everything align in your favor, but we're happy to help with what we can.

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It seems you already pulled the trigger, I'm just chiming in to say it wasn't the greatest idea. Razor Leaf is a STAB move and while it's worse than Vine Whip, it's doesn't make such a big difference. According to GP's DPS/TDO rankings, it's a 6% upgrade. Compare that to, for example, Machamp getting +18% DPS against normal types by changing BP to C.

If you're short on TMs, it makes no sense to spend them on small upgrades from a STAB move to another STAB move. You should save them for the cases where you can gain a much larger upgrade, especially if you have problems doing raids to get more.

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He has a perfect level 20 Machamp with Bullet Punch + Heavy Slam and complains that Blissey needs to be nerfed.

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