When it comes to powering up a legendary, I've noticed that a large portion of Pokemon Go-ers seem to be of the mindset that nothing trumps a 15 attack stat. However, while a 15 attack stat maximizes DPS (which is undeniably important in current gameplay), there must be some value to durability (which indirectly affects TDO). This has probably already been asked but my question is this:
At what point does a lower attack stat trump a 15 attack stat in terms of being worthy to power up. For context, I am looking to power up a third Kyogre. The first two I powered up were 15/14/13 (a/d/s). Of my remaining Kyogres, I am left with the following options:
1) 15/13/13 (91%); L20
2) 13/15/15 (96%); L20
3) 14/14/13 (91%); L20
4) 14/13/15 (93%); L20
5) 15/11/15 (91%); L20
Obviously #1 & #5 have the greatest DPS but are they really the best options to power up given the other more durable options?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
For most people, in practice the difference in performance between any of those is going to be barely noticeable but it really depends upon what you are looking to do.
If you are doing raids where you are right up against the clock then sure attack is king but if you are using it for gym sweeping or to anchor a team for raids where the clock isn't an issue then trading a little attack for some extra bulk isn't a bad thing.
My (perhaps flawed) way of thinking about it:
Most of the time, your powered-up legendary is going to faint when hit by the charge move of a raid boss, and most of the time such a huge hit is going to make your mon faint regardless of whether your stamina stat is 15 or 10. Bulkpoints are probably more relevant but the same concept applies. I (perhaps incorrectly) assume that the final blow would oftentimes lead to fainting even if I were at a higher bulk point over the course of the battle.
Of course there will be exceptions to this, and of course this applies less to battling gyms instead of raids, but this is how I generally view it.
Practically, each point represents about a half-level increase in breakpoints. For 15 attack, the final waterfall breakpoint vs Houndoom is L35.5. For 13 attack, it is L36.5. There maybe some instances where this makes a breakpoint unreachable. Given that you aready have 2, 15 attack Kyogre, powering on for TDO (ie the 96%) may be worthwhile. It will still be able to reach most of the breakpoints anyway.
I don't feel myself qualified to answer that question, but I see a nice topic for a Gamepress guide. In which scenarios <15 ATK is good enough to prioritise the bulk granted by the other stats. Sure, there will not be just one valid answer, most likely depends on each case of study...
My way of thinking is, if I'm willing to power up a pokemon go for the highest IV that have 13+ ATK. In your case I would invest more in numbers 2 and 4, rather than 1 and 5.
Imagine that Niantic implements a way to improve IVs in the future. You would have been always right prioritising the higher IVs and would be closer to the perfect IVs.
Also, you can use the bulkpoint and breakpoint calculators to answer your own question.
Against a Golem with RT/SE in partly cloudy weather your Kyogres:
#1 - max breakpoint at lvl 34 and closest bulkpoint level 33 (so you'd power up to 34).
#2- max breakpoint at level 35 and same bulkpoint at 32. You'd have to power up only one extra level...not a huge difference
#4 - max breakpoint 34.5 and same bulkpoint at 32.5. Half a level difference compared to #1.
Now, if you are willing to reach level 37 #2 and #4 can reach a bulkpoint that #1 wouldn't.
You can check the rest of them and make a decision ;)
> a 15 attack stat maximizes DPS
More accurately, 15 attack IV minimizes the chance of missing a breakpoint.
There are no pokemon with a "15 attack stat". Shuckle has the lowest base attack stat at 17. The attack IV is added to the base attack, then multiplied by CPM for the pokemon's level to get the attack stat.
The same species of pokemon with different IVs can usually reach the same "breakpoints" but lower IVs will need to be powered up more. Sometimes when a breakpoint is close to the max level for 15 IV, much lower IVs might not be able to hit that breakpoint. Breakpoints are different for every matchup, so you need to decide which matchups (usually raid certain bosses, or 100% IV level 40 gym defenders) are most important and check those.
Basically it comes down to individual circumstances for when to prioritize Survivability over Short-Term damage. Otherwise, short term damage (Attack 15) is the most important aspect. 2 and 4 are decent options to power up, though given how Attacking Gyms and Raid Bosses currently works, I'd still power up 1 and 5 before the other 3. I'm not sure if I like powering up #3 when I've got the other 4 options available.
While there is some arguments to be made in favour of Survivability, most of the time you're looking to do the most damage in the shortest amount of time - that's how the game is weighted right now. So unless you're finding that you're fainting before the end of a battle, or are currently in a Potion or Revives drought, Survivability isn't optimal - doing damage is. If I survive to the end of a battle and only lose 4 of my 6 Pokémon, but I don't do a significant amount of damage, I'm going to get less Premier Balls (and potentially less Raid Rewards) than someone who lost all 6 Pokémon but did more damage than me.
Total Damage Output is great, but it relies on battles going on for longer periods of time. The better your attackers (and the better your allies attackers) the shorter the battle will go - so #2 might last another 15 seconds in a Raid Battle, but if that Raid Battle doesn't go that extra 15 seconds your TDO is unrealized.
What you've written is more applicable to comparing two different species against each other. It's extremely rare that IV makes a noticeable difference in either DPS or survivability that isn't fixed with a powerup or two.
>so #2 might last another 15 seconds in a Raid Battle
You are grossly misjudging how much IV matters. Generally the time between two single bar charge moves from a boss is less than 10 seconds by a brief look into pokebattler. 15 seconds would only happen in an extreme corner case scenario with very good RNG or a boss that deals no fast move damage.
I'd go back and edit the "15 seconds" to "(N) Seconds", but screw it. You're hung up on something as minor as that, it's not worth it. The fact that one Pokémon will survive longer than the other Pokémon is what is important.
As for the first part, the question comes with the inherent assumption that all of these Pokémon will be powered up equally, so no, it's not going to be fixed by an extra power up. What exactly in the original question gave you the impression that they weren't going to be powering these up equally?
Point being that it's not even guaranteed that one will survive longer. One has a better chance of reaching a bulkpoint but the vast majority of time, they will both get killed by the same charge move. Same goes for damage, higher attack IV is not guaranteed better DPS, it's just more likely to have better DPS.
The 15 seconds wasn't meant to be literal, only as an expression of how TDO isn't always a useful output to take into account - I'm not about to go and calculate the exact number of seconds for a post like this. The 100% survives (N) seconds longer than the 67% IV. If the battle doesn't go those (N) seconds longer, then the fact that the Pokémon can last (N) seconds longer is irrelevant because those seconds don't exist.
There is nothing indirect about how defense and HP IVs affect TDO, it's as direct as it gets.
As for your actual question, there is no correct answer backed by hard math. It's personal preference where you draw the line.
Pipjay explained very well the worth of the atk IV so I'll not go into that further. Personally I'd rank your Kyogres 1=5>2>4>3.
At level 40, the odds of a Pokemon with 14 Attack missing a breakpoint vs a Raid Boss are very very very slim.
At level 40, the odds of surviving an attack in order to get off another quick attack (or even another charged attack) are very very very slim.
The odds increase from 15 to 13, but still very slim. Even 15 to 10 is still small odds.... AT LEVEL 40.
The issue quickly becomes the lower level your Pokemon the more likely it is to miss a Breakpoint/Bulk Point.
If a 15 attack at level 32 makes, and 14 attack at 32 misses a break point then thats a big difference. There might be practically no difference between the 2 pokemon at 40 though.
