GamePress

SGPokeMap nerf has damaged my local community

Before the water event, Lapras was so rare that a man had a fatal heart attack shortly after catching one at Marina Bay Sands. I had booked a friend for dinner and as I left my house, I decided to check SGPokeMap. Guess what I saw three bus stops away, with the countdown timer at twenty minutes? As I rushed to my bus stop, I realised my white whale (sorry, blue and grey turtle) was in a private housing area and required a left turn after the second stop, but all the bus services would turn right. So I decided to board a bus, alight after two stops, then walk left and look for a way in. Walking along the pavement, I saw a man swiping up on his phone and heading up a staircase that I had not seen. I followed him and shouted: "You also looking for Lapras?" Yes, he was (and he had also spotted it on SGPokeMap). After a few Ultra Balls and Razz Berries, we both had a new entry in our Pokedex, joked about checking our pulses, exchanged tips and discussed the local gym meta. It did not matter that we were complete strangers from different racial groups and different economic backgrounds.

With Blissey breaking gyms and Heracross unavailable here, every competitive player wants to farm Machops. When a migration produced a huge Machop nest, every competitive player immediately knew where to go, thanks to SGPokeMap. I looked up the bus route there, reserved an evening and prepared my supplies (umbrella, water bottle, powerbank). Seven Machop candies. Another seven. Wait, that one is a wonder - set him as my buddy! The girl in front is obviously using SGPokeMap to hunt Machops too. We walk together, chatting about our strongest, rarest Pokemon and how we acquired them by travelling to nests. Turns out that we are on the same team, so we decide to take down and train up a nearby gym together. Seeing her gain only a couple hundred prestige per battle, I taught her how to use lower-CP Pokemon to train friendly gyms. She soon had to leave and I ran into other trainers, whom I had equally interesting conversations with. When I finally reached 125 Machop candy, I managed to get Counter/DP on my first try and had someone to share my joy with. Battling Blissey will never be the same again and whenever I use my Machop, I remember how much fun I had acquiring him.

That is what makes the game fun. Working towards goals (not wandering aimlessly) and meeting new people in the process (which I often do when I catch rares found via SGPokeMap), then using your hard-earned gains to attack, prestige and defend gyms. Of course, it helps to have stops, gyms and spawns everywhere, comprehensive, cheap and reliable public transport, among the lowest crime rates in the world (making it safe to approach strangers) and a culture that is very competitive but has zero tolerance for corruption. Most casual players quit when the speed limit was extended to stops (only the rich drive), leaving many high-level serious legit players. Hence gyms with over six 2000+ CP defenders are constantly built and torn down within a few hours (weaker gyms may last only a few minutes). Stagnation and spoofings are not an issue, as there are more than enough legit players willing and able to take on the spoofers. Technical issues (notably game crashes during battles and errors due to GPS drift) are far greater problems.

Unfortunately, SGPokeMap has been nerfed quite badly over the past few weeks. A legal threat forced them to show circular icons with species names (like D-tini) rather than actual images. Then IV and moveset information was no longer displayed due to changes in how these are determined. When I walk to a rare that I spotted on SGPokeMap, I am now less likely to meet another trainer, which makes the game less fun for me. There is also a slight but noticeable decline in gym activity. More obvious spoofers (with usernames that no local would choose) are appearing in gyms and their Blisseys are lasting longer than before (strong legit players less willing to take them down). Even worse is that many players from other countries regard such tools as cheating and want Niantic to further crack down on them. If SGPokeMap is shut down, gym activity would collapse and the gyms would be left to spoofers, as most strong legit players (incuding myself) would quit (some may switch to spoofing).

Niantic, please do not destroy the tool that holds our community together, unless you add an "official SGPokeMap" that does a better job (if only the game would let us ask Professor Willow where the nearest Larvitar nest is). Focus on dealing with the obvious spoofers and the problems with the game that cause many to spoof (regional species, technical glitches and of course, that speed limit).

Yours sincerely, a level 33 player who battles gyms daily, travels to nests weekly and has bought around 1000 coins with real money.

Asked by hkn7 years 11 months ago

Report

Answers

Hello, I'm from a city very similar to yours (HK) and I can totally understand your situation.

We longer have such tools and the player base here is declining. However, when the game first came out the pokemon scanners were what made people travel around the city. We would take the tram (which is slow and stops often enough to fool the game for egg hatches). Those days are long over.

For players who haven't used such online scanners or did not benefit from them, would regard these online scanners as cheats, but there is no denying that it brings the community together, which is part of the whole purpose of the game (perhaps?)

In any case I'm just a solo player now. Didn't use a scanner for ages and I just go around wrecking gyms and seeing what's interesting to capture on my way to college.

Can I assume SGPokeMap is a tracker?

I can find nests and collect mons from them without the need for a tracker.
Silph Road Nest Atlas works to tell you what nest is nesting which species, without telling you exactly where the mon is.

I have met people at these nests, and chatted PoGo with them.
To claim that you can not find pokemon within a nest without a Tracker just shows how much people rely on them.

Try the game without a tracker...it still works.

Having said all that, the in game tracker does indeed need work - it fails anyone that doesn't live in a major city, and Niantic seem to be more intent on shutting down the 3rd party trackers than fixing their own.
If their own tracker was even remotely more useful then less people would feel the need to rely on 3rd party apps.
If they only spent a fraction of the resources on their in game tracker that they do on shutting down others, then perhaps they wouldn't need to spend so much trying to shutdown others.

...but to claim you can't find a pokemon within a nest without a tracker is just laughable.

I would like to comment on the part "If their own tracker was even remotely more useful then less people would feel the need to rely on 3rd party apps.".

I don't think this will result in less people using a scanner as it gives a player a too huge advantage over your local in game radar. E.g. 3 footsteps won't decrease the use of scanners I'm afraid.

Who mentioned '3 footsteps'?
This isn't the only way they could improve it.

Sure, there will always be people who will look for an unfair advantage, but many justify their use of 3rd party trackers based on how useless the in game tracker is...and to some extent they have a point.
I am not saying it is a true justification - that is for someone to decide for themselves - but you will be hard pressed to convince me that what we have now is effective in any way. In fact, in many cases the system actually works gainst itself.
When a pidgey spawning 1.5kms away removes 6 entries from your nearby...there is clearly room for improvement.

You said it yourself...
"gives a player a too huge advantage over your local in game radar"
My point is, reduce the advantage that 3rd party trackers give, by giving the players something more useful in game.

I'm sorry to be give you an unpopulair opinion on this, but I have no compassion on the nerf of your Pokemap.

It's a pity that your community may suffer as a result however.

While I am not a fan, I can tolerate trackers to some extent. With silph road's nest atlas and walking my buddy more, i can -
if investing enough time - compensate for the candy advantage a tracker user has.

What I decidedly don't appreciate is iv-tracking however. This gives a tracker user - spoofer or not - a most unfair advantage in the gym scene which can only be compensated by investing real money in incubators: you and your friends will have a huge supply of 9x iv mons to evolve, meaning you will have either more defenders with high cp than i or your defenders will have better moves than mine as you can just evolve another whenever an evolution "fails".

This gives you a considerable advantage over me in the gym scene. I can to a certain extent compensate this by having a higher level than you, but the buck stops at level 38 (which i will reach soon).

So unless you are a strict collector who does not use his iv-tracked mons in the gym scene at all, please just stop whining. I am really tired of having to grind xp like crazy just to stay competitive against spoofers and iv-tracking users like you (yes, you and the spoofers are in the same category in my book)

I do not bother IV-tracking. Nest farming and eggs usually give me enough wonders. Since I farm first-stage species like Dratinis and Machops, moveset-tracking is useless to me (likewise for most SGPokeMap players). I have three wonder Dragonites (all earned through farming Dratinis) with SW/HB, SW/Hurr and SW/DP and five wonder Poliwraths with RS/HP, RS/HP, Bubble/HP, Bubble/IP and Bubble/IP.

I humbly observe that this statement doesn't mix well with your original post.

Quote: "Then IV and moveset information was no longer displayed due to changes in how these are determined. When I walk to a rare that I spotted on SGPokeMap, I am now less likely to meet another trainer, which makes the game less fun for me."

I understand the apparent contradiction and hope this clarification helps:

I personally do not IV-track or moveset-track.
Without such functionality, SGPokeMap remains useful to me.
Other trainers may IV-track or moveset-track.
Those other trainers may find the nerfed SGPokeMap less useful.
I still use SGPokeMap to find rares, but those other trainers may do so less often.
Hence I am less likely to meet other trainers when walking to rares found on SGPokeMap.
Since meeting other trainers is half the fun, the game becomes less fun for me.

very long post , here is the summary
- cheater complaining that the company owning the game taking down his cheating toy
- a cheater crying about other cheaters ( spofers and bots )
once you go outside the parameters of the game and its tools you are cheating the level of variant cheaters is up to debate

By your statement, you called most of the responders who use Silph Road Nest Atlas instead cheaters too.

It is funny, by one rational every single person who uses this website to check exact IVs is a cheater.

the atlas is on a grey area ( personally am not using it ) , i wouldnt call it cheating specially that you wont get rares out of it as far as i understand
while IV calculator is not in the game it give no advantage whatsoever it already use what you have ,

Sure it does. It gives me a big advantage when choosing what to evolve.

Otherwise you would have little way to tell that Level 28 Dratini is only 82% Amazing while that Level 20 Dratini is a 94% Amazing.

My point is if you want to label using anything outside the APP as Cheating.

That would include IV Calcs, Sylph Atlas, Facebook, Twitter.

not even far from my point , you took the words and twisted them to the extreme , so in the same sense i cant know of events unless it is from the app ?? of curse not , but hunting the monster is in the core if the game when you go and find a way against the rules of the game and against the terms of it i can and will consider any one doing so a cheater

Shrug.

I'm just pointing out that if you took your arguement to the max it would severly broaden the definition of "cheating"

Now if you only do it to 3rd Party Program Info. Rather than Human to Human info. IV calcs are still cheating.

The silph atlas is from user-entered data and does not break the TOS.
Twitter and Facebook scanner feeds use bots, accounts created where they aren't controlled by players, thereby breaking the TOS. Correct me if I'm wrong about the atlas?
Again, I agree that Iv calcs break the TOS.

In regards to what is and what isn't cheating, if a resource is only available to a proportion of players (e.g. Scanners), then I believe that it shouldn't be available (just an opinion). In the OP's situation, after re-reading their argument, I see that the scanner in their hometown does allow for combatting spoofers, and that is understandable, as it levels the playing field.

The moment Niantic finds a way to effectively removing spoofing (which may be never) then I would want alllll scanners to be removed.

Also, imagine for a PvP scenario: Players A and B are both level X, where player A uses a scanner and player B doesn't (assuming they are from different areas, where A has access to A scanner and B doesn't). If I was player B, I would be frustrated that player A has an advantage that had allowed them to squire better mons. This is a specific scenario, but ultimately I hope that spoofers and then scanners are prevented.

I did not realise (and now acknowledge) that PvP against someone from another area (without a scanner) could be unfair. It would be better if all areas across the globe had access to a scanner.

The silph road relies on user-entered data, whereas trackers break the TOS through using accounts to determine where the rare spawns are. As well, the silph road can be used by players around the globe. Trackers are limited to specific cities and regions where accounts scan.

I agree with your logical regarding classifying iv-checking tools, but breaking the TOS AND providing access to limited areas of the world (scanners) is where I personally draw the line.

Do I hope Niantic shuts down scanners? Absolutely. Do I hope they simultaneously (and miraculously) find a way to combat spoofers entirely? Of course.

From my understanding, any crowdsourced nest list would become redundant every two weeks (after a nest migration) and is likely to neglect small parks (the most common nest here). If I got that wrong, please correct me.

I believe you are correct, but what are you trying to get it?

The use of a scanner still violates the TOS and is only available to specific areas around the globe, creating an unlevel playing field. In your particular situation, the use of a scanner creates a level playing field.

I think a good agreement would be for to Niantic to find a way to remove sooofers and THEN look into removing 3rd party scanners.

I am guessing they are cracking down on scanners first, as spoofers won't be able to benefit to the same extent*, and that combatting spoofing would be a multi-variable process? I.e., an android update recently prevents a subset of spoofers from spoofing, and that more updates across various phones/whatever may be necessary? This is just a hypothesis

My point is that crowdsourcing nest information would be more feasible if nest migrations took place less frequently or not at all (or if the game made it easier to discover the new nest locations). If crowdsourcing nest information was more feasible, then nest farming and meeting other trainers in the process (which is what makes the game fun) may be feasible even without a scanner. Of course, there are other downsides to making nest migrations less frequent (especially in rural areas).

When I first started playing, we found other people using trackers and thought, wow, if we had this, we would have actually found where that Lapras shadow we saw near the beach we went to play at....instead of wandering aimlessly for 15 minutes for a mon that we have never seen in the wild for near a year now.

9 months later, my wife still doesn't have a Lapras so I can see the frustration with not having a tracker...

That said, I felt after using it, it just felt dirty to know where everything is and where all the spawn points were so I stopped after a week or so way back.

I'd still be glad if all trackers were gone and sure, you don't have the BEST top mons, but everyone would be in the same boat as you.

I'm not sure how Niantic plans to change things up, but maybe in a few more generations, they will change the gym scene so you can't put Gen 1 mons in gyms anymore (like how older cards are retired in the trading card game in standard format and can't be used) so all the spoofers won't ruin the gym scene and newer players can still compete as the game moves on .

This also will take care of people who have very powerful older mons when certain things were easy to find/spoof to/etc...(dratini farming, etc...)

The problem with the tracking apps is I think in certain areas, a lot of players play that way so not playing that way puts you in a huge disadvantage so you give in just to keep up.

My guess is gym rework will make CP less important so perfect IVs may not be as needed anymore...Currently, you need high level and high IVs to be in gyms.

OP, what if Niantic were to simultaneously and miraculously find a way to stop spoofing, and then remove scanners?

The main premise of your argument, from my interpretation, appears to be using a scanner to combat spoofers and their army of blisseys. With the spoofers gone, the role of the scanner in this scenario would be obsolete. Yes, you still wouldn't be able to track rares, but what about individuals living in areas without access too a scanner? They would have to spend real money to buy incubators in order to hope for rare hatches, in order to keep up with the rate of a user who uses a scanner, which will create an unlevel playing field upon the release of PvP.

Also 1000 coins of real money is what...$10? How about the candy obtained from these scanners? How much candy has been obtained that would have otherwise taken time AND MONEY to obtain? It, theoretically, hampers the amount of potential income that Niantic would be making. Therefore I doubt Niantic would take pity to this argument, if they combat (again, miraculously) find a way to combat spoofing.

Without SGPokeMap, I would have been among those casual players who quit when the speed limit was extended to stops, before spending a single cent on the game. (Did I forget to mention the terrible exchange rate on those $10?)

I want to actively work towards goals, not wander aimlessly. Preparing and making a trip to a nest, meeting fellow trainers in the process, is what makes this game fun in a way that no other game is.

Hence the negative impact from removing SGPokeMap would be far greater than the positive impact from removing spoofers. Nest farming would be far less feasible and the game would be about wandering aimlessly (forget about meeting fellow trainers). Gym activity would still decline and Blissey would still be a dominant defender.

But it's still breaking the TOS AND providing an unfair advantage to you.

And again I acknowledge in your particular scenario that it would create a negative impact in your particular area.

However, if spoofing is ever* removed, then scanners should also be, despite that it makes the game more fun for YOU. Why not just spoof if it makes it fun for you? The use of a scanner doesn't make a player legitimate, as it allows them to acquire Pokémon that other players around the world can't, as they may not have access to scanners.

In regards to gym activity; that issue is on Niantic's hands. The current system is flawed and they have stated they are working on it.

The game is already designed with "Pokémon that other players around the world can't". I will never get a Heracross through SGPokeMap. Likewise for Farfetch'd (despite being in Asia) or the other regional species. Many rural players have also written extensively about how unplayable the game is for them.

Of course, two wrongs do not make a right. Spoofing ruins the game for other trainers. Using SGPokeMap enhances the game for other trainers whom I meet while nest farming. Either scanners should be made available in all areas or the game should offer better ways to "actively work towards goals" and "meet other trainers in the process".

Not too long ago i already wrote about how trackermaps work. It explains as well why you can't compare them to the Silphroad Nestaltlas,
even if they both provide more infromation one single user could possibly hope to get on his own.
Since you obviously haven't red it, here again in a nutshell.

Trackermaps use bots to collect data.
HUGE amounts of bots.
You're a botuser, my fellow trainer.
And a big one at that.
You and everyone like you increases the dataload the gameservers have to deal with by such an amount that Niantic almost had to shut down the game entirely at the very beginning and for one thing had to reduce the function of the ingametracker to what we have now.
Which is, considering the circumstances a pretty good peace of work.

I understand that you couldn't have thought of that.
Now you know.

If Niantic give us an official solution with better functionality (and less strain on their servers), I believe SGPokeMap (and other trackers) would voluntarily shut down!

hkn, I now see where you are coming from; my interpretation is that that the scanner is used as a means to enhance the social aspect of the game.

I also understand that it helps with farming candies (not necessarily going after 100% Iv mons persay). Unfortunately, I believe this would continue to conflict with Niantic's financial agenda ( incubators --> chance of obtaining these candies).

Unfortunately, in the long run I believe Niantic will attempt to shut down 3rd party trackers. I just wish they would address spoofing BEFORE addressing scanners, as spoofers directly impact a greater proportion of players.

As I had mentioned in a prior comment, access to a scanner may give an advantage in the future of PvP. I do agree with your comment that all communities should have access to scanners, but unfortunately I do not believe Niantic will share this view :(

This has been a great discussion !

It certainly has been a great discussion!

I suspect that very few trainers would repeatedly buy incubators aiming to hatch a specific species (like Machop) multiple times and thus earn its final form. More likely that some would repeatedly buy incubators aiming to hatch a specific species (like Lapras) once to complete their Pokedex.

The buddy system is a great feature for actively working towards a specific goal. Of course, nest farming remains the most powerful (boosted by Pinaps) and the one that really promotes social gaming. Hope Niantic will improve the game based on feedback presented here and elsewhere.

You have just exposed a scanner that trainers use. Niantic read this website. Soon, they would shut it down and you and your fellow trainers would not be able to use the scanner any more. Good for you that there is a scanner in your country but you should have keep quiet about it.

And you're just inviting Niantic to shut them down.

Wow. There are allot of replies in this thread that just blanks my mind.

Those who are against the scanners is against it because they don't live in a major city that has a working scanner.
Some say using anything third party to give the player an unfair advantage is cheating but yet can still defend Silphroad Nest atlas which is a third party tool that gives players an unfair advantage with candy farming.
Some say using a IV calculator is considered cheating because its against the TOS but yet have no problem being a member of a site that has an IV calculator on it, which by logic is saying Gamepress site is breaking Niantic TOS by hosting a IV calculator.

Latest Content

Pokemon Go 8th Anniversary Celebration
2024-06-18

Goodra PvP IV Deep-Dive
2024-06-09

Pokemon Go: Content Update for June, 2024
2024-05-29

Cyndaquil Community Day Classic
2024-05-29

Goomy Community Day
2024-05-29

Shared Skies Go Battle League Update
2024-05-28

Slumbering Sands Event
2024-05-28

Stadium Sights
2024-05-28