Rauquaza's possible return & new counters
So this question will be more for unconventional but effective or new counters since Rayquaza's initial release. I missed it originally due to taking a long break from the game but have some speculation questions:
Alolan Sandslash:
Resists flying and dragon movesets due to steel typing and only take neutral damage from ancient power while hitting back with quadruple ice attacks. Maybe a great new counter?
Alolan Ninetales:
Immunity resistance with its fairy typing gives it better longevity against dragon sets despite mediocre defenses, but would need to watch out for ancient power and even flying sets. It could hit hard with a double ice set or do decently well with a STAB fairy attack too. Frail but maybe a new great glass cannon?
Granbull:
Could immunity to dragon sets with super effective strong play roughs put it in the runnings? It takes neutral damage from flying and doesn't take super effective damage from ancient power like the usual ice or flying sub typed dragon counters. Mediocre fast move selection might be a hinderance though?
With Kyogre having come back and this being the year of legendaries, I foresee both Groudon and Rayquaza making a reappearance. What do people think?
Answers
Alolan Sandslash and Alolan Ninetales rank in the top 18 of counters in neutral weather, they're certainly not bad. But if you have big Dragons, Cloysters, Piloswines, Walreins or SD Tyranitars, they are all better, regardless of Ray's moveset.
Granbull is ok only in Cloudy weather, where it ranks #16 for DPS and #7 TDO against double dragon movesets. Lack of a SE STAB fast move as well as its mediocre stats hold it back from being great.
The top counters list hasn't changed, but A-Ninetales and A-Sandslash are certainly fun new alternatives.
Yes, because DPS matters much more than survivability. If you're looking for TDO to save potions, Sandslash ranks barely in the top 24 against AP sets, behind all the dragons, Piloswine and Walrein.
Both are however elite when it comes to TDO against DT/OR, Ninetales at #3 above Gardevoir and Sandslash at #6 above Lugia.
So if saving potions against the double dragon moveset is what you're looking for, they are certainly great options. But if you want damage balls, you should go for the top ice types and dragons, regardless of the moveset.
The dragon quadrature of Ray, Dragonite, Salamence, and Latios all boast some of the highest attack stats in the game, trumping the ice Alolans by over 100 points in some cases. While Salamence's use is risky with DM being a single bar attack, the others are likely to get off at least one charge move before going down, putting their DPS above even most ice types.
Cloyster and Walrein have impressive bulk, enough to compensate for a weakness against Ancient Power while having higher attack than the Alolans. Cloyster gets access to Avalanche, the best available Ice type attack.
The Alolans would make fun alternatives but they wouldn't outright be the best counters.
I don't think I really agree with that...
Psychic/Overall: Mewtwo is gen 1, fair enough.
Water: Kyogre, gen 3
Ground: Groudon, gen 3
Fighting: Machamp is gen 1, but Hariyama has better TDO and Breloom has better ATK, all with the same moveset. While Machamp gets preference due to how much damage raid bosses tend to deal (i.e. it's easier for Machamp to survive a charge move whereas Breloom can't) that just happened to work out, rather than him being the outright best.
Electric: Raikou (gen 2)
Dark: Tyranitar (gen 2) (to be fair, wasn't a type in gen 1)
Rock: Tyranitar (gen 2)
Ghost: Gengar (gen 1)
Dragon: Rayquaza (gen 3)
Flying: Rayquaza (gen 3)
Fairy: Gardevoir (gen 3)
Fire: Moltres/Entei (gen 1/2)
Grass: Venusaur (gen 1) is strictly due to community day ordering. Sceptile (gen 3) was the pick before that I believe.
Normal: Ursaring (gen 2) (useless type on offense, Blissey for defence is gen 2)
Bug: Scizor (gen 2) (useless type)
Poison: Muk (gen 1) (useless type)
Ice: they're all about equal
Of the 13 types worth caring about, gen 1 has 5 being the best - 1 of those shared best, one with stiff competition, and 1 strictly due to community day. That leaves 2 that are strictly the best (Mewtwo and Gengar), one that's the best with competition (Machamp), and two that really count about a half each. Which means gen 1 is taking pretty close to it's 1/3 of the "best" slots.
To be fair, Tyranitar and Rayquaza getting two slots each does help tilt things away from gen 1, but I wouldn't go so far to say that the game was heavily biased towards gen 1 pokemon...
The other thing to consider is that aside from Rayquaza revisiting us, the new Gen4 dragons are not flying dragons, and hence are not doubly weak to ice. Palkia is weak to dragon and fairy, Dialga is weak to ground and fighting. Giratina shouldn't be anywhere near as much of a challenge as the first two, at least based on CP, but if it gets a killer move, well, then watch out. Gardevior and Togekiss (if good) will both be effective against Palkia, while Machamp and his fighting pals will be good against Dialga, and Groudon would be good if Earthquake weren't the red headed stepchild of charged moves. Well, ground in general. Even Drill Run wouldn't save Groudon, we have to wait for the projected Precipice Blades to come out before Groudon will be an attacker at the level of Kyogre, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, or Tyranitar (with it's limitations taken into account).
