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The PvP Announcement

I know a lot of people are hyped for this, but im honestly not seeing it.
Niantic's said they'd add PvP by years end, but my first thought was will it even be worth it? As we all know, pokemon do have a statistically optimal moveset, that means once both pokemon are out, you know who'se going to win 9 times out of 10. We raid, we generally have the optimized counters for each raid boss, and as all legendaries are raid bosses and many top tier pokemon are raid bosses in some form or share the same weaknesses as some raid bosses, most already have the best counters to them.

YEs it will be fun to battle others, but in the main series thats fun because there are strategies, status moves, abilities, variable movesets and stat distributions (from IV's, natures and EV's) for the same pokemon, but in GO every pokemon will likely have the same offensive sets, near identical stats. The enjoyment of being able to battle eachother will last only so long if theres nothing other than battling for fun. Now if theres some kind of reward for it like raids (im hoping something like battling and then getting a species specific candy or being an alternate way of leveling up/evolving, that'd be freaking fantastic) that'd be a different story.

What are your guys thoughts on it? If PvP's nothing more than just battling for fun would you do it or do you think it could be a different battle system than gym/raids?

Asked by MetagrossMaxis6 years 8 months ago
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Answers

People like fun things, which should be reason enough for them to include it.

Limitations would definitely need to be set. A switching cool-down or even limiting the number of switches per battle would be one method of keeping fights form becoming stall-sessions.

Even with the simplified mechanics of Go, raids are much easier to optimize for over PvP battles. You know what the target is, you know how much you need to power up your squad, you know what specific set of moves to give your team to fight it - at most, you need to watch out for a specific moveset.

PvP has different variables in play. Did you know, for example, raid bosses have lower base stats than normal, barring the obvious HP? In PvP you're fighting against opponents at full strength. You thought Blizzard Kyogre hurt now? Better brace your ass when there's an extra 65 base points of attack behind it. On that topic, it invites people to play with different moves to wreck more optimal counters. Maybe there will be a prestige-like system, where the bigger the CP discrepancy between you and your opponent the better the rewards should you come out on top.

I think that (read: hope that) PvP will shake up the combat system. I think either way people will still do it. People had similar critical outlooks about trading, saying it "served no purpose" yet with introductions of things like bonus candies and lucky chances they've found a way to keep people involved with it. While I don't know what exactly they'd do, they'll likely do something similar to keep people battling.

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YEs, but the fun will only last so long if theres nothing to get out of it, if raids didnt give you a pokemon you wanted or items, no one would do them.

PvP seems like one of those things that could be good, but theres a lot of implications that doesnt seem to have been fully thought through (and given how being didnt fully think through what could happen with trading before it was fully understood, we should be extra cautious about this). I agree there would need to be some kind of system to prevent switches all the time, but also doges, you'd never get anywhere if people just dodge every attack you throw at them. There would be some different movesets for some pokemon, and it likely would add to the use of some 'les desirable' move sets, but all of that is meaning less is again theres nothing worth wile about it long term, if its just battling for the heck of it, beyond the odd battle now and then to kill time before a raid, there'd be next to no reason to ever do it.

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I'm not sure what you mean by "think through". PvP and trading were both extremely anticipated since launch, loads of people thought about it. Unless you mean aspects like stardust cost, IV reroll, or the lucky system. People have come to terms with the first two and understand why those limitations were implemented. The lucky system was a nice boost to the system to encourage more trading beyond dex fillers. PvP will likely have its own rewards as well - exp gain, badges to work toward, possibly stardust. Maybe the silver Pinap that was leaked around the time the lucky system was? It follows the same mantra that's repeated for Gen 4 right now - wait and see.

Pokemon Go doesn't really have an endgame, you could honestly make the "why bother" argument about any aspect of it if you tried hard enough. It's entertaining, that's why we stick around. PvP if done right would be another facet of that, bring more entertainment to the table.

And for god's sake man, proofread before you hit submit every now and again. All of your posts are littered with typos and run-on sentences.

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I wrote this reply earlier, except it wasn't so polite. So I didn't actually post it...

This game is supposed to be fun, not a mathematical quest for perfect optimization for everyone. If that's how you enjoy it, do it, but... not everyone is wired identically.

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I do mean things like the lucky's and rerolls, I know a lot of people who traded a bunch the first day, and now really regret doing that.

Mostly it is how easily PvP can swing to either side, good or bad. Say they keep dodging and infinite switch out without penalty, battles would take forever. However if they remove dodging and add a switch out penalty/condition, there will more often than not be a clear winner. Now if it does have it own set of rewards, no matter how bad the system would/could be, it'd be worth it. It just seems that it could tip either way, be what we all hope for or be a let down. I hope that the PvP rewards are something good like extra candy for pokemon that battled (nonlegendaries only of course) or stardust, i've always though that you should have gotten a candy or something from things like gym battles (since the point of gyms in Pokemon is to train and become stronger)

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I'll concede that they pushed the lucky announcement before the system was actually in place, and that was a dick thing for Niantic to do. They were incredibly transparent with the other limitations well before trading was made available to everyone; If someone's pissed because they dropped 1 million stardust day one for a shiny Lugia that got rerolled to 1/1/1 that's on them. We knew the longer you waited the higher the bottom floor rose, it isn't their fault someone didn't have the patience to wait at least a week. Two days after the trading announcements they posted a developer's insights article on their updates page explaining the rationale behind these limitations.

Since it's all hushed rumors there's no indicator what sort of limits they'll place on PvP to keep it from being a stall session. If they had the foresight to implement trading restrictions to keep trading fun and not completely broken then I'm sure they'll do the same for PvP.

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First, I completely agree with you I do hope some more mechanics goes into battling in the future.

Second, I think it will be a lot of fun. 2 years and there was nothing to do with pokemon go in your house except for the IV checks. Now with trading I invited my group over to my house for a Trading night during this event. It was a lot of fun! I bbq Ribeye Steak and my friends brought sides, Warsteiner and a bottle of Single Malt Scotch. We traded for hours and got a lot of lucky pokemon out of it. Now that PVP will be coming out I believe I would do that again. I have a smart TV so i could connect their phones and we could all watch the battle go down. I'm glad that they are introducing aspects to the game where we don't always have to be on the go.

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My biggest problem with PvP is how people seem to be going nuts over it and not thinking it through, because if dodging and infinite switch outs are allowed, then fights will go no where and likely not be fun. There does seem to be a lot of mechanics changes that would need to be added or redone if PvP is to realistically work the way we'd like it to

It will be fun to battle at the start with friends, but beyond that, if theres nothing to be had by doing it, there wont be much reason to continue PvP outside of the odd occasional battle, because battling just for fun would get a bit old. I'm glad they are adding things too, I can point to it and show my friends that yes Niantic is learning, they are actually delivering on what they say and dont have it just be "Safari zone the game" I just think we should be a bit cautious as to our expectations of the system.

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Tough to get players at the same account ability, but you could do what these T3 challenge/draft raiders do...lower player uses everything, 35mil XP player must include Shiftry, Ludicolo, and Wigglytuff in their battle party (or something to that effect)

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It will be a completely different meta than raids. In a last man standing fight tdo is going to be more important than dps. When your opponent can dodge and not as predictable as AI, dodging skills will play a crucial role in determining the winner (assuming lag won't ruin the whole experience). So you would value more hard to dodge multi bar charge than slow 1 bar moves. I think if implemented right, it will be fun even with the simplified battle system we have now.

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Yeah, and i'd love to see more variety in the pokemon being used as opposed to (almost) everyone using the same group of like 4 pokemon for everything, it would add value to a lot of pokemon not previously used (I would freaking love it if Aggron outclasses machamp in PvP or some other unpopular pokemon becomes a major powerhouse). Plus it would invite more variety, unlike gym defenders (which even in practice arent always what tier lists say) a best PvP list wouldn't be stable, it would be an ever changing system which is something i've really been hoping for. Say fighting;s the starting type used, then fairy/ghost or psychic becomes dominant, then their weaknesses take off, it would invite players to really think for themselves in team building.

However this all hinges on being added correctly, if PvP starts off and its really poorly made, even if they fix it soon, I dont think people will give it a chance if they get let down

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by daltry 6 years 8 months ago

"Niantic's said they'd add PvP by years end"

they only said they want to add it by the end of 2018. that could easily mean it comes out in March of 2019. or June of 2019.

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by Pingo 6 years 8 months ago

If its fun I ll do it regardless of rewards but I dont see it. Either it gets a crapy swipe and change fest or it will be not real PvP where a guy attacks and KI takes control over the other team (like we see in other mobile games) and you win every time as attacker.
Only way its gonna be fun is if they make it like in the original games.

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GameFreak or Nintendo (I forget which one ultimately pulls the strings regarding what Niantic can or can't do) won't allow the combat system to be a carbon copy of the main series. Their reason ultimately being, why would someone pay money for the main series when a phone version plays the same for free? I'm not saying it makes sense, just that it's what it is.

This was of course stated before LGPE, which is pulling away from the mechanics of the main series anyway. Depending on how that sells I guess we'll see if Niantic is allowed to be more involved creatively or not.

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There's a fair likelihood that some changes will be made to battle mechanics before or when PvP is launched. What those changes will entail (or if they will happen) is entirely unknown, but I'm betting on something changing and restrictions being in place for PvP battles.

That said, next to trading, PvP is one of the biggest features players have been wanting since the game's inception. There are likely going to be badges and research tasks associated with it, and potentially rewards for winning matches as well. Most importantly, it's going to provide an element to the game that's been sorely missing for 2 years and will shake up the meta even more in terms of what Mons and movesets are relevant. Blizzard Kyogre, for instance, will likely be a beast in PvP. Ho-Oh, who's been mostly underwhelming, will potentially be a solid option in PvP with solar beam. Even some of the tanky legendaries that currently don't have much use beyond Dex entries might find their niches in PvP battles, depending on how the system shapes out. In the current raid-centric meta, yes, most mons have movesets that are statistically superior for what you want them to do. This means that matching STAB moves that complement the Mon's typing as a specialist attacker are usually preferred. In PvP, this may not always be the case and people will have to think about whether they want their Kyogre, for example, to know hydro pump so it can function as a water-type attacker, or blizzard for counter coverage. Most mons have counter-coverage moves available, and I think they're going to become much more viable in PvP matches.

To top it all off, unless Niantic royally screws it up, PvP is going to be a lot of fun. My local Discord communities have already been buzzing with hype over it, and several people are already discussing potential future PvP challenges, tournaments, and contests.

TL;DR: PvP has the potential to do wonders for the game and, if done properly, give the game the element it needs to ensure it's longevity.

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by hkn 6 years 8 months ago

Under the current system, even with exactly the same team, an iPhone X user would have an easy win over an opponent using an old, low-end phone.

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Considering the current battle system, I don't care about PvP. At all. Maybe when it comes out I'll change my mind, but as a concept, I simply don't care about PvP. I don't see how it could work with the current system. I'm not even sure how fun it would be - after trying to get to 2000 Gym Battle victories, I've decided that it's just too boring and time consuming for me to go for 3000. Raiding isn't that fun either because I already know before I go into a Raid that I'm going to win - the question is will I catch the Raid Boss and what Rewards I'm going to get. (The last Raid I lost was a Jynx raid I did when I just said "I'll do this one now." and didn't do any research at all. I screwed up badly and didn't win.)

If there is a major rework to the Battle System, I might be interested in PvP. But if it turns out to be "Choose Pokémon. Tap-tap-tap until you win or lose. Repeat.", then I won't be interested in PvP.

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