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Outrage vs Hurricane

Outrage DPS = 44.61
Hurricane DPS = 64.44

Why Outrage is considered as a superior offensive movement? Looking at the DPS, Outrage seems a lot worse...

Asked by ww7 years 9 months ago
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by I3L4zE 7 years 9 months ago

Because Outrage is a 2-bar move (hopefully you know why this is better), costs less energy, and benefits from Dragon damage typing, which is NVE into only 2 (currently relatively weak) types in Steel & Fairy.

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Sorry newbie here so I'm not sure....With 2 bar does the benefit come from doubling the DPS or from increasing the frequency of charged attack within a given period?

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Outrage will deal 220 damage per 100 energy, whereas Hurricane will deal 110 damage per 100 energy. Outrage has a longer cooldown, so once everything is factored in their damage is rather similar. Outrage is then preferred due to its better damage type in Dragon and that it is a 2-bar attack, as previously stated.

Furthermore, 2-bar attacks often will grant an extra use before fainting, when compared to full-bar attacks and that is another reason they are generally preferred. So, yes more frequent uses.

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Here's another way of looking at it: the more time you spend casting charge moves, and the less time you spend casting quick moves, the higher your overall DPS will be (this is true for most, but not all moveset combinations). Yes, hurricane does have a higher DPS when compared to outrage, but since it's a 1 bar charged move, that means you'll also be spending a lot more of your time casting the quick move dragon tail or steel wing, both of which are less than 1/2 the DPS of outrage.

(As other people have noted, the overall cycle DPS difference between outrage and hurricane is very small, so there are other reasons, e.g., dodging ease or elemental type choice, that a player would prefer one charge move over the other.)

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This ^ is a good summary

It should also be noted that although outrage (dragon) is resisted by 2 (one of which is an immunity, fairy, which receives a double NVE Multiplier), it is only SE against dragon types.

On the other hand, hurricane is SE against 3 types but is resisted by 3 types, none of which are immune.

Another reason why outrage is nice is because Steel wing seems to be a rather unpopular fast move at the moment, meaning outrage is typically* coupled with DB or DT, both which help when hitting against dragon types (although ice would be better in a dragon v dragon situation)

Edit: Outrage has a MUCH longer cooldown, not slightly, with 2s vs 3.9s, nearly twice as long, and Outrage dishes the damage towards the end of the animation whereas hurricane hits early

Edit2: very good point when you mentioned the prevalence of steel and fairy types

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Correct, poor choice of adjective on my part. Edited to remove "slightly" lol and thumbs up :D

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by Sebhes 7 years 9 months ago

Outrage is superior to Hurricane is superior to Hyper Beam. The difference between Outrage and Hurricane is quite remarkable from personal experience.

Also flying is resist by some of the defenders in gyms.

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by pipjay 7 years 9 months ago

Hurricane and Outrage both deal 110 damage, but Outrage costs half the amount of energy so it can be used sooner and almost twice as often.

To add:
http://www.pogomoves.com/check.php?lang=en&pkmn=Dragonite&basic=Dragon+Tail&charge=Outrage
The spreadsheet data puts Dragon Tail/Hurricane at 97.5% of the damage of Dragon Tail/Outrage, so they are incredibly close over the full run of a fight. But when fighting a gym, the two-bars of Outrage will also allow you to spread that damage out to more than one defender.

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This.

So for 100 energy you get 220 damage from outrage or 110 for Hurricane.

DPS is a pretty bad singular way to gauge charge moves.

Although a long charge that takes time can also cost you damage and energy for quick moves lost. For these factors you will see things like cycle damage and such things referenced around here sometimes.

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Was just typing this above, hit enter and saw. Thumbs up for both :D

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I think gamepress calculate DPS like this

Hurrican + Hurricane + Hurricane
outrage + outrage + outrage

But in reality it should look like this:

12 Dragone tail 1 Hurricane
6 Dragon tail 1 outrage, 6 dragon tail 1 outrage

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Yes, true. It doesn't really change the outcome of move preference though. Similar DPS and in the end we prefer Outrage because it is 2-bars and for its damage typing.

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You should add 3-4 more DTs after the hurricane cause of outrage's much longer CD. For the same time, there Are more quickstep And more energy, resulting in sooner another charge, etc etc. Its not that Simple

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Using DPS to compare quality of charge moves is like using population density to compare the population of cities/countries.

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How about Dragon Claw?

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Everyone always gives this response of 1 bar vs 2 bars for dragonite and some others, but can someone explain then why for some reason the reasoning becomes backwards for petal blizzard vs solar beam? People then say the 1 bar is way better because you can use more quick attacks or something? Help understand please

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I give a metrics to compare charged moves: Time adjuted damage per energy. It takes into account, that a charged move needs energy and that, during cooldown, the quick move does neither deal damage nor generates energy. It assumes an average quick move of 10 dps and 10 eps.

TaDpE = (Damage - 10 * time) / (Energy + 10 * time)

Solar Beam at 0,88 is best, good moves are over 0,70.

@ Gamepress: When will you please delete charged moves dps from your site? For the informed player it gives no information, for the uninformed player it is misleading.
A move at high 100 DPS (10 damage / 0,1 sec) would be bad even at 33 Energy.
A move at low 20 DPS (200 damage / 10 sec) would be good at 33 Energy.

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Why assume 10 DPS and 10 energy for your Quick move? Why not spreadsheet it and calculate the exact damage for every quick/charge combination? I'm working on that, FWIW.

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explain then why for some reason the reasoning becomes backwards for petal blizzard vs solar beam? People then say the 1 bar is way better because you can use more quick attacks or something?

But both Petal Blizzard and Solar Beam are one-bar moves.

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Oh strange, I was reading something that described petal blizzard as 2 bars, did something change?

But is there ever a case where solar beam is better than a 2 bar move with higher dps and if so how does it stack up against the H/O argument?

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Petal Blizzard used to be a 2-bar move. I think it changed with the Gen2 update when all charge moves received major buffs.

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I was wondering the same thing about Articuno's Ice beam or Blizard. I have two of equal IVs and am not sure which to power up

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The DPS for a charge move is the damage divided by the duration. But that isn't really relevant, it's about how long it takes you to build up the energy to use that charge move. So take Charge DPS with some skepticism.

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on the other hand outrage is a slow move and the time taken to cast it is fast attacks not being made and energy not being generated (not to mention dodges not being able to be made) hence the total difference is not
12dt + 1 huricane vs 2* (6dt + 2outrage) hence the relatively little full cycle dps difference.

on top of that in the current meta specialist are valued more then generalists so I am not unhappy when my evo's roll hurricane.

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