Lucario
Could anyone tell me why Lucario is so bad in PoGo?
I know Niantic is trying to stray away from the GBA/DS games, but its kind of ridiculous how bad Lucario is compared to others.
If you look at the base stats from the DS games, Lucario's total is 525, and it's Max CP with 100% IV is just over 2700 I believe.
Now comparing it to another pokemon, Rhydon for example, its total base stats are 485, yet its max Cp with 100% IV is well over 3000.
Again I understand that Niantic wants PoGo to be different, but this makes no sense to me.
To add to this, Lucario's movesets are pretty bad, Magneton is as good of a steel attacker than it is, and it is just a decent fighting attacker. I feel like there'll be an event soon including Lucario where he gets a legacy move(set), but I still feel Lucario should have been a great pokemon right away, especially since it was one of the strongest Pokemon in Gen4.
Answers
Lucario's highest stats are his Attack and Special Attack.
It just seems odd to me why Lucario isn't stronger because for me, there's no incentive to get one other than furthering my pokedex completion. I was hoping for Lucario to be another great fighting type but now I just have to settle with only using Machamp.
Thats more or less most of GO, theres one, maybe two or three best attacker of type, everything else is dex filler.
Lucario never stood a chance because of movepool, in the main games, it cant get DP, so even with a higher attack stat than machamp in GO, that doesnt matter because how small that gap is, DP is one of the best charge moves and the sizable bulk difference between the two.
If Lucario some how did get a clone move of dynamic punch, it would be better than machamp but but theres also still senarios machamp would beat it. In cases where its steel type doesnt help, say against double dark Tyranitar, machamp still wins because Lucario's naturally lower bulk. Against double rock or iron tail, it could have stood out by having a higher *effective* bulk, but those cases dont come up often, and its steel type also could prove a liability in some cases. It never really stood a chance.
Lucario's bad in GO becausets stats are supposed to be mixed offense, I believe the split is 115 special atk and 110 physical, with 70 ib both defenses and poor HP and speed.
Its stats are supposed to reflect a mixed offensive glassy attacker, but its moves are terrible in GO, and even in the main series, Lucario has terrible stats (this is without mega consideration, as the point of megas is basically to break every pokemon gamewise) for what its supposed to be, which is still a mystery, mixed glass cannon? Slow mixed attacker? In either case, it lacks the stats to pull either off effectively. This mix up of what its supposed to be translates into GO with bad defensive stats but high offensebecause of its mixed nature. Unlike Rhydon/perior, which is a hardline physical specialist. the conversion formula is significantly more friendly to pokemon like that than mixed
Topping it all off, Bad move. Lucario has them. Counters good as a fast move, but CC doesnt complement glass. Similar applied for BP and Flash cannon.
In PvP, Lucario is adequate because of how good counter is, and the whole battle system differing from raids.
My theory is eventually they will add some new fighting or steel moves, Lucario will get them, but even then, its hard to be comparably good when your best competition is Machamp as a fighting attacker and Metagross as a steel attacker.
Theres a few fighting moves that could be added to put it on even or above footing with machamp, but thats unlikely. And it will never be able to compete with metagross even if it gets meteor mash, metagross just shear outstats Lucario
Lucario also isnt one of the strongest gen 4 pokemon, quite honestly, its bad. Baring its mega, theres a lot of gen 4 pokemon better than it. We're talking about a pokemon with the same defense than *Castform* guys
If you honestly think Lucario wasn't one of the strongest Gen 4 mons you must have lived under a rock or never played Gen4/Gen5 OU ...
He wasn't the best pokemon in the game, but if you actually think Lucario was "bad" you just never played the game lol...
https://www.smogon.com/dex/dp/pokemon/lucario/
https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/pokemon/lucario/
Lucario is simply awful in raids due to lackluster moves. Lucario's movepool in the main series doesn't offer some of the optimal Fighting or Steel sets for PoGo (like Dynamic Punch or Heavy Slam).
This isn't set in stone. For example, Lucario might get Meteor Mash, and if/when it does, it will be second-best to Metagross and Steel-offense. But beyond that, I don't see any other way that will catapult Lucario's offense except a change in his move parameters, but something of this much change seems highly unlikely.
Like others have mentioned, in the PvP format, Lucario stands out with Shadow Ball, but otherwise doesn't have the bulk to hold up. There are better options with similar moves and higher TDO.
Overall, Lucario isn't awful, but it isn't great either.
Not going to lie, Lucario is one of my favorite pokemon, and I understand that Lucario isn't the best pokemon ever, I just feel like Lucario in Pogo is a huge let down. The stats that Niantic gave it feel like it doesn't do Lucario justice IMO, and I'm not just saying this because he was my favorite pokemon when I used to play the Pokemon games on Ds.
Niantic didn't give Lucario stats in PoGo. It's CP is based on a conversion of its base stats, which are based on its stats from the main series. So, Lucario's stats really aren't different in Go compared to the main series.
The big difference is in its available movepool in PoGo. It's moves make it pretty lackluster as a gym attacker or part of a raid team. In PvP, however, my experience has been that it's a beast in the great and ultra leagues.
Even if Lucario got halfway decent moves, it would still have been a let down for a few reasons. The big one is people tend to glamorize their favorite pokemon, thinking they are a lot better than they really are, see every genwunner's fascination with Charizard.
Lucario never really had a chance to begin with, even in the main games, its got bad stats, mostly in defense and being a passable mixed attacker at best when not mega, GO's conversion formula heavily favors all-in-one stat pokemon, not mixed offense, which is why Groudon and kyogre have higher CP than Rayquaza despite lower attack. Its movepool compounds this by making a pokemon that with the best possible set slightly above average at best to completely irrelivent. Had Lucario gotten the best possible moveset, it could have made some impact, but never would be able to dethrone the likes of machamp and never could come close to metagross
Had it gotten aura sphere, forcepalm or really any fighting move thats not already in the game and that move been good, it could have had a shot as a fighting type. But even then, it would still be a glass counter at best for fighting.
there really isnt much they could do to "do Lucario justice" as its hard to make a pokemon with bad stats do well, the bad stats ontop of a very limited movepool for whats currently in the game could have told anyone Lucario never had a shot with the current moves, it needed some new move to be added for it to be good as a fighting attacker, and as a steel attacker, yeah...no Metagross massively outstats it, even BP/FC metagross is better than Lucario with the same set, similar would apply had Lucario gotten meteor mash, as Lucario doesnt get a lot of steel moves that are charge moves (it doesnt get iron head in the main games) so flash cannon is its only option or the event exclusive meteor mash which it might get in the future as a CD, but isnt likely
A lot of people dont generally like hearing their favorite pokemon is bad in this (or any) game. I was the same way when I heard metagross was absolute garbage when I started in febuary.
Genwunner here. Move aside Charizard, my favourite is Magikarp. I naturally think that Gyarados has been unfairly treated, having to live in Vaporeon's shadow for so long, to finally get Waterfall only for Kyogre to make its debut soon after, with Totodile Community Day around the corner. Then again, Blastoise fans must feel even more upset at how poor it is even with Hydro Cannon and the defensive rebalance.
At least you arent a Charizard fanboy.
I can see how gyarados fans would be a bit annoyed about HC feraligatr, but there's actually one thing gyarados does have up on all the other water types, it's a lot better against ground types. The effectiveness modifier increase makes it last so long agaisnt ground moves (and lasting longer allows for more charge moves, and thus higher DPS than otherwise, lasts about 2.5 times longer than feraligatr) and its best set is always available. Feraligatr's only going to be out for a few hours, and to top it all off, totadile's line is pretty scarce, evolving for a team of 6 would cost 744 candy, nd powering up likely would take a very long time. I still have a ton of SD tyranitar, MM metagross and even Charizard and venasaur that arent powered up. When a pokemon;s only competition is legendary or event exclusive, that pokemon's still top tier.
Meanwhile magikarp are quite common. I dont think gyarados has anything to worry about.
Niantic didn't plan out power level of moves very well. A lot of strong moves, like Dynamic Punch, are only available to a limited number of pokemon. A lot of more widely available moves, like Close Combat, are much weaker. The few pokemon with strong moves and good stats excell at fighting, while the rest are just dex filler.
It's important to note that the stats in Go aren't random, they are based off the stats from the main series games. Lucario is just unfortunate that its stats don't translate to Go as well as some others.
The moves are a different matter though. How strong the moves are, and what moves each Pokémon gets, seems to be fairly arbitrary on Niantic's part. The one thing they've kept consistent is that Pokémon can only learn moves they could learn in the main series games. This means Lucario can't get Dynamic Punch, which is pretty much essential for any fighting type attacker.
I understand the stats are translated from the main games to PoGo, just the conversions confuse me somewhat. I don’t get why Niantic favors certain pokemon over others with the way that they weigh the stats from the main game when the convert.
And I’ve noticed this with many Pokemon in this game, I feel a lot should be stronger like they were in the main games but aren’t as great in PoGo.
My theory for the moveset situation though, looking at the loading screen where Electivire is fighting Lucario, it looks as if Lucario is doing the move Aura Sphere, which would most likely be a two charge move, and I’m hoping it becomes a legacy move.
About the favorite certain pokemon, niantic doesnt individually pick and choose, its that the stat formula they uses favors certain pokemon. The pokemon that are favored by the formula are all In one stat pokemon. Lucario being a mixed attacker pretty much got screwed.
Most pokemon are more prominent in one stat than mixed, which is why they went for the formula favoring specialized offense not mixed offense.
Aura sphere could be something they do for Lucario, and it seems ectremely likely, though Lucario isnt the only pokemon that gets aura sphere. Togekiss, the creation dragons, and a few other pokemon also get it
You pretty much just answered your own question. Niantic does this all the time, they release a potentially good pokemon with trash movesets so in the future, they'll be able to get more revenue with a community day or raid day. It's as simple as that.
99% of the Gen1 Dex was pure dex filler during the early days. Metagross was absolute garbage. No point in hatching more Beldums untill it got Meteor Mash. Lucario will get Aura Sphere one day and it'll be great. Niantic is that predictable.
As for CP, it doesn't really mean anything. The formula Go uses favors attack more than any other stat. That's the reason why Trapinch has a higher CP than Vibrava. The rest focuses on Defense and HP. Lucario has a high attack stat, but the reason why it's CP is lower is because it's defense and hp stats are low.
Bottom line: Lucario is fine. There's no need to rage. It's stats are good, but its just the movesets which of course are temporary. Just wait for aura sphere in the near future. Don't forget that it also has a Mega.
