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IV vs Moveset

What's best, a Machamp with dinamic punch but 10/10/10 IVs or another with 15/15/15 but close combat?
Is Hariyama with dinamic punch better than a Machamp with close combat? Does it depens on it's IVs? Where is the line that makes one preferable than the other?

Asked by Georgelafred6 years 7 months ago
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Moveset > IVs any day, especially when comparing something like Dynamic Punch with Close Combat. IVs are massively overstated and the difference between a 10/10/10 and a 15/15/15 is negligible in most cases.

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Yes, but. Moveset can be changed with a TM. IVs can only be rerolled by trading.

The difference between a 10/10/10 and a 15/15/15 are somewhat significant. The differences between a 14/13/15 and a 15/15/15 are negligible. Look at the CPs in the CP calculator - 10/10/10 is two to three levels lower than 15/15/15, depending on the level and the pokemon.

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Just because it can be re-rolled doesn't make it less important. A 15/15/15 Raikou with the worst moves will be outpaced by a 5/5/5 Raikou with the best.

By negligible difference, I meant mostly in battle and not the number in the preview screen. Shaving off some defense and HP IVs will hardly be noticeable. I ran some Machamp simulations against a RT/SE Regirock with the basic variables; Party of 6, 1000 sims averaged, no bonuses.

Case 1 had 15s across the board. Case 2 had 10s, followed by 5s in case 3, and ultimately 0s in case 4. The DPS goes down by roughly half a point from best to worst. Case 5 had 15s again, but this time with Close Combat instead of Dynamic Punch. The best Close Combat scenario averages under the worst Dynamic Punch one, and only bests the worst case in TDO. The DPS disparity is purely the influence of the attack IV; running the simulations again while keeping attack 15 while reducing the rest made zero impact on DPS, as the number dipped by less than 0.1 at most. TDO took a hit going from 5d/s to 0d/s, but among 15 -> 10 -> 5 it fell about half a percent.

If anything, it shows the IV with the most weight is attack as it's the biggest contributor to DPS due to breakpoints. Of course there are case specific scenarios like Gengar vs Confusion Alakazam where the other two carry sizeable weight, but most matchups aren't like that.

So while CP can vary wildly between IV ranges, it's the differences between movesets that make the biggest impact in practice.

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by ghao89 6 years 8 months ago

It also depends on their levels of course. You can add your pokemon stats into your pokemon box and use the DPS/TDO rankings chart restricting to your pokemon to compare them.

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by Lenaco 6 years 8 months ago

You can change a moveset with TMs, but you can not change a mons IV. Therefor IV is more important, and a 15/15/15 (100%) IV is the most valuable of them all.

Where to draw the line as to where IV looses its appeal is very personal, but wasting your dust and candy on a 10/10/10 would be plain dumb because literally any raid you will do next will get you a better one.

For the same reason, TMs, comparing a mons best moveset to another mons sub-optimal is pretty much useless.

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Yet TMs especially CTMs are pretty precious for most casual but dedicated raiders, and there's not guarantee for anyone to get the optimal charge move with a single CTM (Mewtwo is the best example). I agree that it's dumb to invest candy and dust onto mons with iv low like 10/10/10, but trainers lack of TMs would think twice whether the mon is good enough (has overwhelming iv and high level) to get an opportunity of move reroll. Personally if I got a powerful mon like Machamp with perfect iv but dump charge move (Heavy Slam), I will definitely give it a CTM and max it out. But for a level 20 iv ~90, I probably won't do that.

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This. Once you get the right IVs you can customise the moves.
In your case example a bad IV machamp with DP is going to outperform a perfect machamp with CC

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As applies to Machamp:

C/DP is best set, 100% of potential DPS
C/Close Combat is 88.4% of potential DPS

Any of Hariyama's movesets are about 93% as effective in DPS (with higher TDO) as Machamp's equivalent.

The break point difference between 10 and 15 is up to 3 full levels, so a sizeable investment in dust and candy.

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Species>moveset>level>IV

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