GamePress

Isn't decompiling software cheating?

From the TOS ( https://www.nianticlabs.com/terms/pokemongo/en/ ):

... you may not ... (c ) reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the App

So the TSR article congratz Niantic for "cracking down on cheaters", yet publishes information from what seems to be an illegal action of their own. I assume that all the in depth details regarding movesets and many other details of the game were also extracted from the APK.

Where's the outrage? Or is it because we all benefit from this "sanctioned" cheating?

Asked by toytracker7 years 11 months ago

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Answers

They walk a fine line. The Nest Atlas is questionable in itself. I think the reason there is not outrage is TSR is a great community for PoGo and they promote legit gameplay, while condone cheating. While their actions of sifting through the APK may be questionable, the reality is that it doesn't hurt anyone. In fact, it is our only real source of news/info on Pokemon Go, because Niantic does such a poor job communicating. That info isn't giving anyone a competitive advantage, plus things that are found in the datamines area already in the game, or soon to be implemented. It causes speculation more than anything or clarifies things about the game.

I think of it how the NFL condones gambling, yet works with fantasy sports and even has shows on fantasy football on their network. Those shows promote gambling and give people an inside advantage of how to do it. But the bottom line is, it's good for business.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, I agree with your points, especially the "it's good for business". Perhaps TSR has approval from Niantic to deconstruct the APK.

In what way do you consider the nest atlas to be borderline? That's just end users reporting their observations, seems totally legit to me.

I agree that it is just players reporting pokemon, which is why it is allowed. That being said, Niantic has gone to extensive lengths to keep people from knowing what pokemon are where. IMO the Nest Atlas isn't much different than a scanner in terms of locating pokemon. The biggest difference is a scanner will tell you where/when a Snorlax is in a location. The Nest Atlas tells me where I will always be able to get Bulbasaur or whatever. What makes these things problematic is spoofing. A spoofer could spoof to a nest location while at home with the help of the Atlas. I honestly don't see a problem with someone using a scanner and then taking 20 minutes to drive to a Snorlax. If you have that kind of time, go for it. It's the spoofing that creates the problems.

If you believe walking/getting out is the more important aspect, then scanners may be more rationalized because you are actually going out to catch something (you just happen to know exactly what it is). OTOH, if you believe exploring areas is more important to game play, then spoofing is rationalized as replacing time/money to physically travel to other areas.
IMO the scanners are a bigger problem partly because of the hit on server load, but also because IV and MS along with spawn/despawn duration is known – that just seems so wrong for a hunting game. The atlas just gives general information: “find bulbasaurs around here” but no guarantees.
Spoofing (to my knowledge) doesn’t increase the server load, and may not hurt others if the spoofer is not loading gyms with ill-gotten gains. I’m thinking about a rural player that might not have many pokestops or spawn areas around, and doesn’t have the money/time to travel to better locations.
Clearly the worst is scanning+spoofing+gymhuntr!

I think it just comes down the the intent of the user. Are you trying to be malicious, or are you trying to make the game more personally entertaining? To my knowledge, scanners no longer show IVs because they vary. In addition to that, pokemon are not guaranteed to have good IVs, good moves, or be at a high level.

For me, I think it shows what the game is lacking. Someone showed me a scanner that was set up on Twitter and I had the most fun I have with the game going and hunting for the pokemon that popped up on the scanner. I could actually hunt pokemon. There is not hunting aspect to the game right now. You are either walking around aimlessly, hoping that something happens to pop up, or you just go to the pokestop that the pokemon is at. But even with that scanner, it is typically more trouble than it is worth. Am I really going to drive as much as 40 minutes (20 each way) for 3 or 6 Snorlax candies? It's simply not worth it to me. IMO, like you said, spoofing+scanning is what makes the real difference because then you could get 10 or 20 Snorlax in a day. I just wish they had a better hunting/tracking system, because as of now, I can't see what is on my block, but I can see what is by the pokestop a half a mile away...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/condone
-to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like)
-to give tacit approval to

I think you meant a different word.

If anything that TSR are doing would be considered "questionable" I don't think Niantic (seeing as they recently got 2 guys on that sub to help with tech issues) would be interested in being part of that community...

I would say that breaking down the APK and extracting data walks a fine line...and technically even crosses it. They clearly do it only to gather information, rather than to do anything malicious with it - I think this would be the distinction that stops them from being punished for it.

The Nest Atlas is nothing more than users spotting and reporting - it doesn't use bots, and it doesn't even report specfic spawns, but just shows an area that a player can check out for themselves. I believe this is the type of community interaction that Niantic is happy with.

Yes they walk a fine line, and with the APK may even cross it technically...but clearly Niantic are OK with it, or they wouldn't have their own employees join the community in an official capacity.

It would be nice if the community team at Niantic were not so restrictive in which communities they join.
It is not like there are that many sites that are held in high regard by the vast majority of the PoGo player base.

No question that decompiling is against TOS, unless TSR has explicit permision. [edit: the fact they have their own employees now joining that site seems to be tacit approval at least].

I agree with you that intent and "doing nothing malicious" with the information are mitigating factors; however, would that mean if someone plays a second account but doesn't do anything evil with it (eg just wants to help out the underdog team, but doesn't engage in shaving etc) would be OK?

If someone has a second account that never joins any team, and so can not take part in the gym scene at all - then I can see no problem with that.
Sure it is against the rules technically - but it guarantees they won't shave, nor will they gain an advantage.
Even being on a different team, you may gain an advantage.
Lets say you attack an opposition gym, and the next day that underdog team builds it up leaving a space - then you come along with the alt account and place it there, then you have helped gain your second account an advantage by freeing up a space for them to use. This becomes borderline in many situations, even if the interaction isn't immediate or direct.
Besides, you are still helping out your own teams' rivals - which is not fair to your local players on your own team.

Just my opinion though...

I can't think of any way that making multiple accounts would objectively help everyone. Putting multiples of yourself in the same gym prevents other people from being there. I would say making a second account is not okay.

Then you can apply the same logic to GamePress...In their Moveset Frequency, Egg mon IV Distribution, Catch Mechanics research, clearly botting was used. But does that annoy the community? Well, to the most of us, of course not. But still, every now and then, there are people like OP bringing these to the table. These are always debatable and never end.
My opinion? I wish that GP serve as a technical platform, to discuss more game knowledge and stuff, instead of a moral court.

Ideally yes, it is cheating but the saying goes if everyone does it wrong then that makes it right.

Even this very site is considered cheating as it has a IV calculator but once again if everyone else is doing it its considered to be a gray area and everyone agrees its ok.

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