For example Slowbro C/IB etc. The best way to find out is to look at all the non teir 2.5 pokemon in the gen 2 defenders list(on game press) and see how many of them you have with the best or very slightly worse moveset.
According to pokebattler:
A level 30 Jolteon defeats a level 30 Gyarados in this combat simulation, at 80.2 seconds left with 80 HP left,
A level 30 Jolteon defeats a level 30 Slowbro in this combat simulation, at 79.8 seconds left with 72 HP left
Are you serious about strong defender if it just a bit stronger than Gyarados (with dragon tail of course)?
For one never put all your trust in pokebattler if you base everything off of pokebattler simualtions you are a noob in my book. Also I said good defenders at low cp I never said anything about gyarados being bad in my opionion he is the best defender in the 2.5 section. (ps. My opinion is based on reason, stats, counters, and logic not pokebbatler.)
How much research? How many times have you battled him? What proof do you have that I am 100% wrong? Because trust me when I am making lists I want to know the best so if you have any solid hard evidence please share, like actually I am not trying to start a fight I legitimately want to know the facts about how why the others are so bad if you provide no arguments than I stand not corrected if you make any valid points than I admit that I am wrong.
Other than Blissey and Snorlax other Pokemon are quite easy to take down.
Even Snorlax isn't too bad for most players, hence the "1.5 defenders". Blissey is the only one that realistically has a chance of timing someone out and therefore ending the entire gym run early and actually defending the gym because if a Blissey is on the bottom and the attacker doesn't have a strong enough attacker then they can't progess further, whereas the other Pokemon on the tier list are essentially speed bumps slowing down the prestige loss.
The other Pokemon are bad simply because they don't output as much damage before fainting even compared to a Pokemon with double weakness against a Pokemon it is weak to.
Take Cloyster for example. Sure it has good defense, but there is no chance of timing out against it, so what matters is it's damage output before it faints, which is low because of it's crap HP, so it's not a good defender with low CP, it's a bad/mediocre defender and it also has low CP.
If a Pokemon cannot time out the attacker, then the other win condition is to make all of the attacker's Pokemon faint, therefore total damage output is what defines a good defender, and despite the tier 2.5 defenders all having double weaknesses, they still output a lot of damage even against the Pokemon that have double effectiveness against them, making them better defenders than the Pokemon below them, Lapras with an ice quick move probably being the only exception.
Yes I agree that blissey is is the only defender good by itself but pokemon like ampharos for example he has a very high avg defensive dps so he would go well with a very tanky defender because most of the time a gym has more than one defender so yes by itself only blissey can still be good but that is not the point of gyms being able to get to lvl 10.
Nice to see you posting again androgynous...
Agree with everything posted here...
Also, as "great" as some of these other defenders are, usually, you can use any trash/instant transfer mon against it so if an attacker doesn't even have to use their main team to attack it, how good can it be?
Even though I am now hoarding potions/revives (150+ of both), I have started to use trash mons when I do my daily gym runs and other than Blissey, (and sometimes Snorlax, never see Lapras anymore) ...nearly all defenders can be beaten easily with ~1200CP instant trash pokemon like Murkrow, Arbok, whatever...It takes a few of course, but they still fall with no timeout issues. Usually, I don't even dodge since I don't want the dodge loop bug.
Blissey is a good defender because someone usually has to use their A team Pokemon which they need to revive/heal.
I guess I have a problem with the measure of "good" and "bad" being used. Though I agree with both your points (timeout and damage output before fainting,) does that mean that every pokemon outside of Blissey is strictly bad?
Let me use an NBA analogy...hopefully some basketball fans here...Before the season started the Warriors and Cavs were predicted to go to the finals. As it turns out, both teams may make the finals without losing a game, and a majority of the people don't even give the Cavs a shot. This would mean the Warriors are Blissey, the clear favorite, with the Cavs (Snorlax) the only other ones in the discussion. This this mean all the other teams in the NBA are strictly bad? I would argue no. They are inferior, but there is a huge difference between the Rockets and the Nets, Rockets are good, Nets are horrible, and everything else is in between. If someone tried to argue that every NBA team not named the Warriors or Cavs was equally worthless, I would dismiss their opinion as well.
Pokebattler is based on reason, stats, counters and logic too...along with Maths.
Sure, don't place all your faith in a single resource - but to not use a well respected and reputable resource just because someone said so is at least equally foolish...if not more so.
Sure, don't be 100% reliant on pokebattler...but to completely disregard it would be more foolish.
More likely someone did an evolve session and threw 6 pidgeys/ratticates and you just happened to beat the last one.
I don't get why people think "Ice Beam" is such a suprise. Unless it's to Dragonite, at Best Ice Beam is SE against grass that I would likely be using.
The issue is that SE is same as stab, so against an electric pokemon it's no different.
Sure it's slightly better vs a Grass but not enough to matter.
I mean maybe, but hard to argue with the results. I don't know why anyone would use pidgey/ratticate on attack, regardless of evolve sessions. Pretty sure people are trying to win. The base 197 defense stat is really what makes him a good defender and he's not double weak to anything like Gary. To your point on electric types, they have low hp so SE is neutral imo
Of course I already had Slobro, Cleftable, Hypno, and Cloyster for a long time. Donphan is pretty common from eggs and it took 4 tries at Steelix. The only two Lapras I ever got for a long time with ice moves were Lapras, they are both over 2350ish. I think everyone has a WG/AT Vape. Combine that with having 900/1000 mons and being a hoarder and there you go.
Edit: Also scratch Espeon from my list. I though it was the listed moveset but it's actually C/psychic.
Huh. I have quite a few of those.
Powered:
Espeon C/Pb
Exeggutor C/Se
Unpowered, waiting for more candy and/or gym update:
Slowbro C/W, C/P, C/iB
Ampharos V/T (unfortunate that he can't learn Thunderbolt or Discharge for defense.)
Umbreon S/F, S/F, S/P
Slowking C/P (If Psychic got upgraded back to a 50 energy move, I'd power this up and show her off.)
Steelix iT/C
So far my Donphan has had the longest stay in a gym out of all my mons. 2-3 months! I regularly put Slowqueen and Exeggutor on defense. Unfortunately I have yet to put Umbreon in a gym. His CP is a little low even for me at ~1600. I have a high level Jolteon that I enjoy putting in gyms. I'm currently working on a Charizard but candies are few and far between. I just evolved a 2150 Venusaur with optimum defensive moveset. Looking forward to trying him out too! I don't defend much with my psybeam Espeon either. It seems when I face one however she makes quick work of one of my mons. I do so hope that the gym rework will give us a 'big 30' or so rather than 7.
You and I have a different definition of "low cp." I can realistically put 2500 cp pokemon in most gyms around here. I have a 2800 cp Eggy at the top of one gym, and an Espeon that is over 2900 cp. As far as "low cp" I would consider that Slowbro/Slowking and Tentacruel. I'm waiting to get my Slowking back for power up, and I stick a Slowbro and Tentacruel in gyms occasionally.
I have 3 C/IB slowbros cp range 1800-2200.
For me defending is about potion usage.
Gyms get beated down day after day no matter what, so why i wanna use my blisseys as defenders and lose all my max revives for nothing?
Thou i still dont want throw trash mons in, so i use something that can actually do good dmg before fainting and then its easy for me to revive them up.
I think slowbro does good dmg versus top attackers.
Dragonite, Machamp, Vaporeon.
Also i would be interested to have Counter/Play Rough Ursarings as defenders.
